Huh?

Icon is a slick little amphibian, actually a really good design that was sadly sold by a poorly thought out company




Nothing to do with VTOL or flying cars, though I guess you could maybe single pax 135 one… maybe

Always thought it would be a great commuter and be a great camp scout plane too, especially if you could delete the LSA limitations and with a bigger engine and CS prop

Was it nothing more than a tech steal from (nearly) the beginning?? The numbers folks are quoting strongly support that there was never a viable business case for this product. The fact that Chinese "investors" dumped hundred(s?) of millions of dollars into a novel amphibious aircraft development that they had to know was/would be a free market loser would support a theory they were just stealing technology from the brightest engineering minds in that field. And they wouldn't do that without an endgame in mind. Call me a conspiracy theorist if you like, but I'll never buy that the leader of the Chinese Communist Party has a passion for general aviation in the flavor of short-range two-seat amphibs.

I 100% agree to never trust or do business with a commie


That said, I don’t think this was a flop of a design, look at how everyone and their brother making PA18 clones has no issue selling them for huge bucks, if you’re looking to land on water and pavement this is a better aircraft compared to a cub full stop

Just dumb business moves, look at the cubs lots of the LSA ones had way more than LSA power, they just placarded it for emergency use only beyond XXXX RPM or something like that

Other issue with the hot selling cubs is if you bring the wife unit with you, one of you is mostly going to have a view of the back of the others head, the icon is a side by side

Cruise speed the icon wins

Hangar space getting tighter and tighter folding wings are great

It lasted this long because they found stupid people, mostly Chinese, to keep throwing money at it. There was little chance of ever covering the development costs, let alone the ongoing annual losses. Every dollar they put in just put them further and further from break even. You wonder how this can happen, but I see private equity guys doing this over and over and over again. They make up for it in fees and sometimes the occasional home run.

What tech could they possibly have that is worth hundreds of millions of dollars and that couldn't have been acquired much faster for much less?

This whole thing smacked of a Jim Bede type scam with its over the top hype and unrealistic expectations. I swear it is easier to make money scamming people than delivering a quality product that brings positive change.

What tech could they possibly have that is worth hundreds of millions of dollars and that couldn't have been acquired much faster for much less?

Unless that said plane was capable of being turned into a drone and launched en masse from seaside hangars off the water. Better yet from caves carved into seashore. We have seen the A22 get turned into a weapon. This would be even deadlier and more concealable.

That said, I don’t think this was a flop of a design, look at how everyone and their brother making PA18 clones has no issue selling them for huge bucks, if you’re looking to land on water and pavement this is a better aircraft compared to a cub full stop

Just dumb business moves, look at the cubs lots of the LSA ones had way more than LSA power, they just placarded it for emergency use only beyond XXXX RPM or something like that

Other issue with the hot selling cubs is if you bring the wife unit with you, one of you is mostly going to have a view of the back of the others head, the icon is a side by side

Cruise speed the icon wins

Hangar space getting tighter and tighter folding wings are great[/quote]

That's the problem. It was an LSA and the entire LSA program, industry has been based on a dumb set of rules full of tricks and catches that prevent it from being successful. Then you have high dollar hucksters promoting imported airplanes that fly like #$% compared to the old designs with questionable structure to meet a weight limit. Buy one and beware because it may be worth nothing in a year or two because it's the "old model" with a tail too small or some other unfixable defect that should have been easily found in testing.

Icon had the funds to lobby hard and get a gross weight increase. But they ate that up with higher empty weight. Instead of a tractor simple cub you end up needing high tech materials, engines and low margin engineering to make a good LSA useful load. Even that is not enough for average American size humans. Now with Basic med LSA is dead. It should have never happened and basically sub 6000lbs the old CAR rules should have stayed in effect. They produced the most successful long lived airframe designs. Part 23 has produced nothing great in new light trainer type airplanes. Part 23 rewrite with consensus standards and audits possibly will work but LSA has just shown that papework audits with no outside agency actually test flying the airplanes is not that great either. LSA airplanes are too light built for every day banging around as a rental or with students. Amphibians get abused with docking, ramps, environmental exposure. We tried a bunch of different designs and kits. Ended up back with Cubs.

The design ideas and styling were right on to attract the market. AOA was over hyped but at least it was a static port type gauge not electronically driven with lag.

If ICON goes then the S-LSA certification ends with no company support. They could switch to ELSA but with no company how does that work going forward for installations of avionics and other mods or Service bulletins. (no ADs on an LSA only SB).

Float plane makes a better seaplane than a flying boat.
How many lakes were ever used in the 135 seaplane market in AK?

Now do Cub, 180's 185's, 206's beavers etc...

The Goose had a market for awhile, so did a twin beech on floats.
But that pretty much vanished when you could get a caravan on floats.
Twin otter on floats was way more popular than turbine converted Goose or Malard.


For docking, beaching and really using the airplane a float plane is waaaay superior to a flying boat.

You can easily paddle a float plane and the draft is low enough that you can beach and get on/off with close to dry feet.

Only place flying boat wins is speed, and for a big flying boat(s) (think PBY or HU16) rough water.

(I may be biased, but I grew up in AK and had my PP SES before SEL or any other license.)

for any new aircraft to be truly be useful and have a long term market, it must be able to be used for a utility purpose. The Icon does not carry 2 actual people fuel and stuff.
If it could there is applications for it in fish spotting travel to the wilderness, as a supply aircraft for working boats etc.

recreational uses are always last only a few years an thus a bubble type market but for example if a recreational vehicle like the UTV or side by has a use for things other than only fun it will find a niche. whether you can make money is another question.

is it cheaper and tougher than a 170 or 180 on floats ?

folding wings so it could easily go into marina's could be a real plus and just using normal AUTO gas available most anywhere would be a great plus also.

but it must carry 2 normal people and stuff with enough fuel to complete its missions.

thus if up graded to the new Mosaic specs it might have a market. again the https://www.vickersaircraft.com/ from New Zeeland may have an actual market.

You average floatplane mission is 1-1.5hrs

How is this different than a PA18, C152, R22 etc?

The vast majority of cirus are not working planes

Tuff, well I’m not sure versed on the icon, but flying boats tend to be hardier than float planes, especially Cessnas


Thinking back through it years working in the industry, the only place where full fuel was seen was flight schools, outside from a long range ferry flight I can’t think of a time I’ve needed or wanted full fuel flying the line

Say what you want about Icon...

... but their parties at Oshkosh were top shelf.

Their AoA system, specifically the presentation of the display, is the best I've ever seen.