27 Apr 2024, 22:39 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: SpaceX Starship re-entry video Posted: 16 Mar 2024, 12:30 |
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Joined: 08/14/13 Posts: 6079 Post Likes: +4659
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Username Protected wrote: Not the same NASA now, but SpaceX isn't setting any speed records. Don, their goal is efficiency, reducing cost of mass to orbit, etc With this being the focus, they are doing an outstanding job, they're running a for-profit business model and they're tossing 34-engine'd boosters into the ocean, all with their R&D budget
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Post subject: Re: SpaceX Starship re-entry video Posted: 16 Mar 2024, 13:14 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23623 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: Starship was at best a twinkle in the eye 12 years ago. Musk discussed the BFR as early as 2005, 19 years ago, which was the twinkle stage. 2012 was not a twinkle but actual real design work underway. Starship names have evolved: BFR (Big F***ing Rocket) Mars Colonial Transporter Interplanetary Transport System BFR (again) Starship (confusingly the entire thing or just the orbital stage) Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: SpaceX Starship re-entry video Posted: 16 Mar 2024, 14:12 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23623 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: So numbers seem reasonable. Starship has to do a lot more than Falcon 9. Flacon 9 has a expended second stage which removes lots of fuel, equipment, and design considerations versus the Starship. An extra pound of Starship is like 7 to 8 lbs of takeoff mass. Falcon 9 also had airing it dropped, Starship doesn't. That's extra mass to carry to orbit and bring down. There is a reason why a fully reusable rocket doesn't exist yet, it compromises the payload capability to bring the stuff necessary to return everything to the ground. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: SpaceX Starship re-entry video Posted: 16 Mar 2024, 14:13 |
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Joined: 03/03/11 Posts: 1860 Post Likes: +1829
Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
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Welll, they built something that went to space in less time than most people could certify a new ga airplane. Sure, compare to Apollo. That was something like 5% of GDP. This is a single company. Keep hating on Elon everyone. He keeps more things moving forward than all the haters combined They also built the mfg system already to support this thing at scaled production. No one else even close on that.
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Post subject: Re: SpaceX Starship re-entry video Posted: 16 Mar 2024, 14:15 |
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Joined: 03/03/11 Posts: 1860 Post Likes: +1829
Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
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Username Protected wrote: So numbers seem reasonable. Starship has to do a lot more than Falcon 9. Flacon 9 has a expended second stage which removes lots of fuel, equipment, and design considerations versus the Starship. An extra pound of Starship is like 7 to 8 lbs of takeoff mass. Falcon 9 also had airing it dropped, Starship doesn't. That's extra mass to carry to orbit and bring down. There is a reason why a fully reusable rocket doesn't exist yet, it compromises the payload capability to bring the stuff necessary to return everything to the ground. Mike C.
I am going to go out on a limb and say I think they have done the math. Armchair engineering of something like this makes a bold assumption on the stupidity of the entire org at spacex. I am sure they all remember the rocket equation from engineering 101 and know how it applies to their design.
They are failing fast and iterating the design massively between launches.
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Post subject: Re: SpaceX Starship re-entry video Posted: 16 Mar 2024, 14:17 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23623 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: Welll, they built something that went to space in less time than most people could certify a new ga airplane. Their rocket has not yet achieved orbit, or any certification. The equivalent in GA would be a test flight, which happens fairly early in the development cycle. SpaceX is definitely behind the schedule they wanted. Quote: Keep hating on Elon everyone. Advocates who call others haters are unnecessarily argumentative and polarizing. One can be supportive and critical at the same time. We have too much "us vs them" today and this is the kind of attitude that creates that. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: SpaceX Starship re-entry video Posted: 16 Mar 2024, 14:21 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23623 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: I am going to go out on a limb and say I think they have done the math. None of which has been made public so far. Quote: Armchair engineering of something like this makes a bold assumption on the stupidity of the entire org at spacex. It doesn't take an idiot to notice the fuel gauges are nearing zero before the needs are over and that the payload bay appears to be empty in the video. You statement is clearly excessive and wrong at the same time. Mike C.
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Post subject: Re: SpaceX Starship re-entry video Posted: 16 Mar 2024, 14:56 |
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Joined: 02/21/18 Posts: 627 Post Likes: +783
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Username Protected wrote: I am going to go out on a limb and say I think they have done the math. Armchair engineering of something like this makes a bold assumption on the stupidity of the entire org at spacex. I am sure they all remember the rocket equation from engineering 101 and know how it applies to their design.
No no, BT's professional pessimist has clearly spotted issues from the graphics of a webcast that everybody at SpaceX has somehow missed. Just like G100UL, he knows better than everybody actually involved. Chicken Little comes to mind.
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Post subject: Re: SpaceX Starship re-entry video Posted: 16 Mar 2024, 20:32 |
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Joined: 06/25/20 Posts: 55 Post Likes: +27
Aircraft: Bonanza G35
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Username Protected wrote: I am going to go out on a limb and say I think they have done the math. None of which has been made public so far. Quote: Armchair engineering of something like this makes a bold assumption on the stupidity of the entire org at spacex. It doesn't take an idiot to notice the fuel gauges are nearing zero before the needs are over and that the payload bay appears to be empty in the video. You statement is clearly excessive and wrong at the same time. Mike C.
Perhaps SpaceX doesn’t feel the need to share data critical to their long term business plan with the world at large. How much of your business’s data do you share over social media? I expect that the proprietary information most critical to SpaceX’s future (Starship’s payload to different orbits) is hidden behind a lot of fuzzy PR. SpaceX’s primary investors are some of the heaviest hitters in our economy today(Google, etc). They have probably vetted the business plan behind Starship reasonably thoroughly.
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Post subject: Re: SpaceX Starship re-entry video Posted: 17 Mar 2024, 00:26 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23623 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: I expect that the proprietary information most critical to SpaceX’s future (Starship’s payload to different orbits) is hidden behind a lot of fuzzy PR. Not really. https://www.spacex.com/media/starship_u ... ide_v1.pdfI'm sure it needs a lot of revision, but SpaceX is quite open about its intended rocket performance. As you might expect, the Falcon 9 User Guide is quite a bit more detailed: https://www.spacex.com/media/falcon-use ... 021-09.pdfQuote: SpaceX’s primary investors are some of the heaviest hitters in our economy today(Google, etc). They have probably vetted the business plan behind Starship reasonably thoroughly. They also invested heavily in driverless cars. How is that going? A business plan doesn't assure rocket performance. Small errors in initial assumptions underlying the design architecture can create huge changes in the capability at the end. This is complex stuff with every small change compounding the weight problem. Every so often, you see another SSTO (single stage to orbit) project come up. But they never seem to go anywhere, just too hard to make the math work. The Starship is bordering on that challenge with it being fully reusable. Mike C.
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Post subject: Re: SpaceX Starship re-entry video Posted: 17 Mar 2024, 08:42 |
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Joined: 03/03/11 Posts: 1860 Post Likes: +1829
Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
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Username Protected wrote: Welll, they built something that went to space in less time than most people could certify a new ga airplane. Their rocket has not yet achieved orbit, or any certification. The equivalent in GA would be a test flight, which happens fairly early in the development cycle. SpaceX is definitely behind the schedule they wanted. Quote: Keep hating on Elon everyone. Advocates who call others haters are unnecessarily argumentative and polarizing. One can be supportive and critical at the same time. We have too much "us vs them" today and this is the kind of attitude that creates that. Mike C.
If there is an easy way to make hater green while typing on a phone let me know. Efforts to use an emoticon to communicate lighthearted humor apparently fall on deaf eyes:)
Have you driven with latest version of Tesla FSD? I was pretty damn impressed, it was an order of magnitude better than any other I have used.
Used Starlink this week at someone’s house in middle of nowhere.
Cybertruck is the most impressive vehicle I have seen up close. Details of design were next level IMO.
All those projects took longer than planned. I am surprised any got completed frankly. The world seems awash in people who over promise and under deliver, on any timeline. I like celebrating, even irrationally at times, people who endure the brain damage of shipping products in today’s world.
I would also contend cherry picking a single line of text in a post that clearly had some tongue in cheek creates division too as most people will never go back and read the full text.
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Post subject: Re: SpaceX Starship re-entry video Posted: 17 Mar 2024, 10:50 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23623 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: Have you driven with latest version of Tesla FSD? Not driverless. I brought up driverless cars as an example where Google invested a lot of money and things have not worked out. Therefore the theory postulated earlier that Google investment means things will work is wrong, there is no such assurance. Quote: Used Starlink this week at someone’s house in middle of nowhere. Very cool. Now if they could only make aviation use financially reasonable. That would be a huge capability. Presently, I think it is about $250K for the equipment and $10K/month. Quote: Cybertruck is the most impressive vehicle I have seen up close. Put me down in the "it looks dorky" category on that one. I'm sure most of the advancements would work on a vehicle that had style better than what a 2 year old can do. The styling causes comical issues like the windshield wiper. Starship is the hardest thing any of Musk's companies have ever done. It is an order of magnitude harder than Falcon 9. They are attempting to do things governments don't attempt. Mike C.
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