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28 Apr 2024, 17:18 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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Would you fly?
Yes 7%  7%  [ 6 ]
No 93%  93%  [ 85 ]
Total votes : 91
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 Post subject: Re: Would You Fly?
PostPosted: 23 Jan 2024, 17:52 
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Doug has not shown you the photos taken after some of the fabric was removed.

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 Post subject: Re: Would You Fly?
PostPosted: 23 Jan 2024, 18:04 
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I also voted no.

It looks like that spring is moving on the frame of the vertical stabilizer or some of the frame tubing of the vertical stabilizer is damaged. The fabric bunching is what has me uneasy...


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 Post subject: Re: Would You Fly?
PostPosted: 23 Jan 2024, 18:07 
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Username Protected wrote:
Doug has not shown you the photos taken after some of the fabric was removed.

That would take the fun out of the poll. :D

I will post the rest of the photos tomorrow afternoon.

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Last edited on 23 Jan 2024, 19:15, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Would You Fly?
PostPosted: 23 Jan 2024, 18:21 
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Username Protected wrote:
Doug has not shown you the photos taken after some of the fabric was removed.

The question isn't "is it safe?", it's "would you fly?" No. It looks damaged, possibly from landing hard, tail first. In any case it appears to be damaged and that's as much as I need to know.

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 Post subject: Re: Would You Fly?
PostPosted: 23 Jan 2024, 18:24 
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Username Protected wrote:
Doug has not shown you the photos taken after some of the fabric was removed.

The question isn't "is it safe?", it's "would you fly?" No. It looks damaged, possibly from landing hard, tail first. In any case it appears to be damaged and that's as much as I need to know.


That is what my thought process is... It should not look like that.. and that is all I need to know.
More inspection would be required before figuring out what is what and what step is next. But if my airplane looked like that, I would be pretty unhappy and definitely not flying it...

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 Post subject: Re: Would You Fly?
PostPosted: 23 Jan 2024, 19:07 
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Arnie would go! Those flight controls are fine! Good enough for me. :duck:

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 Post subject: Re: Would You Fly?
PostPosted: 23 Jan 2024, 19:20 
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Username Protected wrote:
Doug has not shown you the photos taken after some of the fabric was removed.

Hah .... no need, seen many.

Nice new cladding on those bolts & pretty fresh black paint on that spring.

Amazing how many taildraggers fly with cracked longerons & cluster welds ... without crashing .... wrinkled fabric is a sure sign of needing thorough inspection.

I once taxi up to the fuel pumps in a Citabria.
Do the cool stomp-on-a-brake 180 turn,
(yeah, I was stupid & ignorant back then, don't do that)
ass end drops & stops .... snapped the forward bolt of the tailspring that was being cut into by the plate from the whisker comm antenna mounted there .... DOH !!!


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 Post subject: Re: Would You Fly?
PostPosted: 23 Jan 2024, 19:28 
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After an engine run up, 50 ft from the Rwy hold short line while sitting in the right seat, I recently told a friend “turn around and take me back to my hangar I ain’t going.” He’s an ATP, the airplane was factory built with 125 hrs on it but _I’m_ the guy that made the right call. It takes courage and conviction to go against the flow and resist peer pressure.


Need more context here.


Happily…

He showed up to take me flying in his new bird and before boarding he mentioned that he had been having trouble with the prop controller. Newfangled electric pitch 3 blade with a feather feature. He does the run up and the controller is flashing red lights and he says it sometimes changes rpms at will. He’s finished with the run up and satisfied and starts rolling towards the hold short line and turns to me and says “you ready”? That’s when I said what I did. He was incredulous and I was insistent.

I could also tell about the time I was the only one of 42 skydivers that got up off my seat and said “I ain’t going” and stepped off the airplane. (I was really unpopular that day.) I watched the airplane stagger into sky and barely fly away and because they were all lucky and survived it is presumed (by them) that they were right.

We all know accidents are a chain of events and sometimes it just takes one person to follow their instincts and step up and put a stop to the cascade. Usually and hopefully, that one person is the PIC but sometimes it takes more than that.
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 Post subject: Re: Would You Fly?
PostPosted: 23 Jan 2024, 21:34 
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Buckled fabric and apparently a fracture in the tab through which the tail spring hold down bolt goes through does not make for a good start.


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 Post subject: Re: Would You Fly?
PostPosted: 24 Jan 2024, 00:00 
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Username Protected wrote:
Doug has not shown you the photos taken after some of the fabric was removed.

That would take the fun out of the poll. :D

I will post the rest of the photos tomorrow afternoon.

Ahh, another click bait thread. That's what twitter is for.
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 Post subject: Re: Would You Fly?
PostPosted: 24 Jan 2024, 01:27 
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Click bait aside, here's a couple of things that may be worth considering:
Landing with the tailwheel first, and hard (as in a deep stall), imparts severe vertical loads on the whole aft structure of the fuselage, causing the damage seen to the fabric, and (worse) the tail post and fuselage tubing. Inspection is paramount.
If the above doesn't apply, it is probable that the airplane was groundlooped, and the tailwheel came against a hard object, or the runway edge. That imparts a severe lateral force on the tailspring mount, hardware, and the tailpost, with the damage as appreciated on the picture.
Inspection of the airplane must not be limited to the tail: the things to look for if the above is suspect, are the bottom of the wingtips for scrapes, and the wing spars. These may suffer compression fractures from the wingtip loads as they scrape on the ground, if the groundloop is severe. If it is a biplane, the top spars must also be inspected, as the N-struts also send vertical loads up to the top wing.
But we seem to be fixated on the fuselage damage, while there is an additional glaring issue that could lead to loss of control in flight: The rudder control cable is in notably poor condition, and the forward cable eye and thimble attaching to the turnbuckle appears deformed. In addition, the rudder bellcrank is angled to meet the aft fork of the turnbuckle. Both of these can (and have) lead to failure of the components, specially during maneuvers that demand higher rudder pedal forces, such as snap rolls, or Hammerhead turns.
There is a recent AD for early Pitts aircraft to replace the rudder control cables with swaged ones that eliminate the turnbuckle and associated hardware.
FWIW,

TN


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 Post subject: Re: Would You Fly?
PostPosted: 24 Jan 2024, 13:30 
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Username Protected wrote:
… another click bait thread. That's what twitter is for.

Pffft … Not at all.

Hoping to get folks to exercise their critical thinking skills and commiting to a fly/no-fly decision … before revealing the reality.

I am guessing that there may be too little revealed by removing the inspection plate. Dunno of there is an inspection plate on the other side.

Logs document a prior repair in 1940-something.

I wonder: How much (interior) corrosion exists elsewhere in this airframe? In the early 70’s the local GADO maintenance inspector bought what looked like a beautiful J-3. While trying to extricate myself from the front seat after removing the floorboards, I crushed a section of tubing with my thumb. I was scared to death that the A&P/IA would banish me. Nope. The airframe was junk - internal corrosion. The Repair Station and A&P/IA that signed-off the prior Annual lost their certificates.

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Last edited on 24 Jan 2024, 13:49, edited 5 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Would You Fly?
PostPosted: 24 Jan 2024, 13:34 
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Username Protected wrote:
… another click bait thread. That's what twitter is for.

Pffft … Not at all.

Hoping to get folks to exercise their critical thinking skills and commiting to a decision … before revealing the reality. I am guessing that there may be too little revealed by removing the inspection plate.

Attachment:
5081A85A-1A9B-482F-AC4E-BDACA4AD1EF1.jpeg


That'll buff out....

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 Post subject: Re: Would You Fly?
PostPosted: 24 Jan 2024, 13:35 
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Username Protected wrote:
… another click bait thread. That's what twitter is for.

Pffft … Not at all.

Hoping to get folks to exercise their critical thinking skills and commiting to a decision … before revealing the reality. I am guessing that there may be too little revealed by removing the inspection plate.

Attachment:
5081A85A-1A9B-482F-AC4E-BDACA4AD1EF1.jpeg


A little J-B weld should fix that right-up. ;)
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 Post subject: Re: Would You Fly?
PostPosted: 24 Jan 2024, 14:53 
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So Doug, What's salvageable? Almost Total Loss? :scratch: :shrug:

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