27 Apr 2024, 12:11 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Cessna 421 Oil Pressure Episode Posted: 21 Jan 2024, 13:52 |
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Joined: 06/24/14 Posts: 94 Post Likes: +75 Location: Fort Worth, TX (KFTW)
Aircraft: C421
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Username Protected wrote: I usually start to slowly pull back 1" per minute at something like 8 - 10 minutes from landing, usually stopping at 25" until short final.
Why? I usually kept power up until pretty close to the airport and/or I needed to slow for some other reason (redline, traffic, etc). The 1”/minute thing doesn’t do anything to help the engine. Robert
Of the 3 mentors I flew with in my first 50 hours, 2 were adamant about the procedure I described. The other, like Robert and Gerald, said it did nothing to help the engines. I challenged all three pilots (who all had between 2,000 - 5,000 hours in a 421) on their conflicting opinions/procedures. In a nut shell, neither camp could provide hard data, but both sides were so certain that they were correct, they'd rather shoot the family dog than say that the other side had it right.
I experimented a little (trying each method) a couple years ago. I couldn't "feel" or notice anything different from the airplane other than my turbine inlet temperatures were a little bit lower taxiing the plane to parking when I reduced the power as described above. I think that most 421 pilots run the engines at about 900 - 1000 rpm for a few minutes before shutdown (that's certainly what is preached at my recurrent training facility) to, among other things, lower those temps.
Ultimately, I decided that two guys' opinions were worth more than one...and that even if majority was wrong, that reducing the power as described in the last few minutes of the flight was probably not damaging to the engines. Perhaps I've been wrong the whole time...I'm not married to my method, I am always willing to listen (especially if I'm wrong), and I'll pet the dog afterward regardless of what smarter and more experienced people try to help me with.
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Post subject: Re: Cessna 421 Oil Pressure Episode Posted: 21 Jan 2024, 16:51 |
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Joined: 10/24/19 Posts: 147 Post Likes: +39 Location: Central NY, (N03)
Aircraft: 421C
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Over these past 30+ years of flying these air-cooled piston jobs (airplanes & helicopters), and nothing else, I’ve adhered to what I was taught by instructors with regard to engine power/temperature management. If it made sense to me, I would remember it. Progressing from the 90hp C-150 to the 375hp (ea) 421, the larger the piston engine the more susceptible they are to temperature changes. Thus, requiring a smoother, gentler touch vs a ham fisted one. Staying ahead of the plane with regard to descents, I’m a proponent of the 1-2” at a time to prevent any big temp changes/shock cooling. At $100k per engine, I’m interested in longevity and even though I understand the LOP crowd, I’m in the ROP camp. Mostly because after speaking with 135 operators who run these large geared engines to TBO, they do so by keeping the temps cooler, (I know, I know - there’s another side to the curve). Fuel & oil are the cheapest part of ownership and provide the best insurance for longevity imo. So, if burning a few more gallons per hour gives me my best chance of making it to TBO, then it’ll be worth it. Of course I won’t know until I get there (or don’t). But, it makes sense to me so, that’s what I do.
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Post subject: Re: Cessna 421 Oil Pressure Episode Posted: 21 Jan 2024, 16:57 |
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Joined: 11/07/22 Posts: 116 Post Likes: +83
Aircraft: 414A
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Username Protected wrote: Over these past 30+ years of flying these air-cooled piston jobs (airplanes & helicopters), and nothing else, I’ve adhered to what I was taught by instructors with regard to engine power/temperature management. If it made sense to me, I would remember it. Progressing from the 90hp C-150 to the 375hp (ea) 421, the larger the piston engine the more susceptible they are to temperature changes. Thus, requiring a smoother, gentler touch vs a ham fisted one. Staying ahead of the plane with regard to descents, I’m a proponent of the 1-2” at a time to prevent any big temp changes/shock cooling. At $100k per engine, I’m interested in longevity and even though I understand the LOP crowd, I’m in the ROP camp. Mostly because after speaking with 135 operators who run these large geared engines to TBO, they do so by keeping the temps cooler, (I know, I know - there’s another side to the curve). Fuel & oil are the cheapest part of ownership and provide the best insurance for longevity imo. So, if burning a few more gallons per hour gives me my best chance of making it to TBO, then it’ll be worth it. Of course I won’t know until I get there (or don’t). But, it makes sense to me so, that’s what I do. You know, I agree here. This is exactly how I operate my 414A.
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Post subject: Re: Cessna 421 Oil Pressure Episode Posted: 24 Jan 2024, 14:37 |
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Joined: 01/30/09 Posts: 3356 Post Likes: +1965 Location: $ilicon Vall€y
Aircraft: Columbia 400
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Username Protected wrote: Lower airspeed will reduce oil cooler effectiveness. Slowing down might have helped a bit. Might put the gear out if speed allows and use more engine power at a slower airspeed.
Mike C.
I've found this to be true in my Columbia 400. At high speed cruise (65-68%), at mid-teens, I never even reach 170f oil temperature, even on an ISA +20F day. There's an SB to replace the oil cooler and vernatherm on the TSIO550-C to correct this. It's kind of expensive and I haven't gotten around to doing.
Weirdly, at lower power cruise, like 50-55%, especially at lower altitude, I get higher oil temperatures.
The cowling on the Columbia is very effective at cooling the engine.
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