04 May 2024, 05:34 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Took my Citation up to Tarvers today. Posted: 15 Dec 2023, 22:58 |
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Joined: 08/13/20 Posts: 195 Post Likes: +112 Location: KLOU/KJVY
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I couldn't agree more! I wouldn't be in my citation right now if it weren't for him. And many of us would be paying absurd new textron prices if it weren't for his graveyards of gently used parts. He's a great guy as well as a friend!
_________________ -MU-2 -C501
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Post subject: Re: Took my Citation up to Tarvers today. Posted: 23 Apr 2024, 19:33 |
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Joined: 11/25/16 Posts: 1832 Post Likes: +1408 Location: 2IS
Aircraft: C501
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Did a long cross country in the 501 this weekend, people always seem interested what it costs to run a legacy jet so here's the breakdown. This a good trip to discuss since I got the worst of both worlds...summer temps and winter winds. Certainly not cherry picking a trip to talk about costs. https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight ... Z/2IS/KTYRStarted the day in Central Florida; already heading for 90 degrees. Got good clearances and pretty well unrestricted up to FL360...that's all I planned for since the winds went from bad to worse as you climbed. Got the trifecta on this leg....ISA +20, headwinds approaching 80kts and they started my descent almost on hour from destination...I can only assume trying get me under Dallas arrivals?? I topped off for 457 gallons/3000lbs so still had 800lbs remaining even with the temps/winds/early descent. https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight ... /KTYR/KTUSNext leg was Tyler, TX to Tucson. Temps and winds managed to get slightly worse. Didn't crack 300kts GS until just before top of descent. Topped off for 441 gallons/2900lbs, so an easy 900lbs remaining on another day VMC arrival. https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight ... /KTUS/KSBDFinal leg was a quick hop from Tucson over to San Bernardino. I didn't bother fueling when I got home but I'm quite confident I burned 1500lbs/225 gallons or less. Engine start to engine shutdown was 9.0 hours, flight time was 7hrs, 45 minutes. Pretty decent for a straight wing airplane in these temps and winds; my block fuel burn was 125gph. My ride was quite, comfortable and squawk free. It defies being 46 years old and REALLY blows my mind as someone coming up from a p-twin. I absolutely love this plane and the value if offers. I cannot underscore the safety and confidence I have in a jet. Here's the pics. Yes, I have 2 iPads; don't judge me.
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Post subject: Re: Took my Citation up to Tarvers today. Posted: 23 Apr 2024, 22:34 |
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Joined: 11/25/19 Posts: 177 Post Likes: +85
Aircraft: Aerostar 601P, AS350
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Are the 500s faster than the 550s?
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Post subject: Re: Took my Citation up to Tarvers today. Posted: 23 Apr 2024, 23:20 |
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Joined: 11/25/16 Posts: 1832 Post Likes: +1408 Location: 2IS
Aircraft: C501
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Username Protected wrote: Are the 500s faster than the 550s? So we need Mike Tarver to step in, but that's a yes/no but mostly no I believe. I have a fairly light 501 and no reversers. It's clean, well rigged and an aft limit CG when I'm single pilot...so mine works well; it will do book or better all the time. I recall that Mike had an early (super light) 500 that was dummy fast. The 550's and 551's are more thrust and a longer wing. They climb faster and apples to apples they cruise faster and land slower. It's a perverse function of Citations that the higher and fast they go, the slower they land since the wings just keep getting longer.
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Post subject: Re: Took my Citation up to Tarvers today. Posted: 24 Apr 2024, 10:55 |
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Joined: 11/06/20 Posts: 1323 Post Likes: +1306 Location: Tulsa, OK - KRVS
Aircraft: C501SP
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363KTAS is awesome for +20 ISA! Nice cool ITTs at those speeds too. Last weekend I was facing the same warm temps (flew from Tulsa to Houston, back to Tulsa, and then to Fredericksburg for the CJP fly-in) and trued out at 367 but I was at 650 ITT.
Ross can chime in but I also believe the 550's are slightly faster on roughly the same fuel burn as a 501. Of course they carry more as well. The -4's are more efficient than the -1A's.
The sweet spot is the SII. 560 wing/speed without the 560 price. But I'm nervous about TKS. I like my boots as I can be reactive to ice instead of having to be proactive. Nearly every time I blast through the layer so quickly I don't need the boots. But if I had TKS I would have to turn it on ahead of time just in case.
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Post subject: Re: Took my Citation up to Tarvers today. Posted: 24 Apr 2024, 11:05 |
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Joined: 07/21/08 Posts: 5480 Post Likes: +6194 Location: Decatur, TX (XA99)
Aircraft: 1979 Bonanza A36
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Username Protected wrote: 363KTAS is awesome for +20 ISA! Nice cool ITTs at those speeds too. Last weekend I was facing the same warm temps (flew from Tulsa to Houston, back to Tulsa, and then to Fredericksburg for the CJP fly-in) and trued out at 367 but I was at 650 ITT.
Ross can chime in but I also believe the 550's are slightly faster on roughly the same fuel burn as a 501. Of course they carry more as well. The -4's are more efficient than the -1A's.
The sweet spot is the SII. 560 wing/speed without the 560 price. But I'm nervous about TKS. I like my boots as I can be reactive to ice instead of having to be proactive. Nearly every time I blast through the layer so quickly I don't need the boots. But if I had TKS I would have to turn it on ahead of time just in case. Chris, I manage and fly a 550. I have never seen fuel burns anywhere close to those numbers. My milk run is FTW-RAS and we will burn 450 gallons on that round trip of 2.5 hours. Our longer runs we will average 180gph on a 3 hour trip with about 360ktas. The 501 is the absolute winner in the fuel burn category among the legacy 500 series planes.
_________________ I'm just here for the free snacks
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Post subject: Re: Took my Citation up to Tarvers today. Posted: 24 Apr 2024, 12:02 |
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Joined: 11/25/16 Posts: 1832 Post Likes: +1408 Location: 2IS
Aircraft: C501
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Username Protected wrote: The sweet spot is the SII. 560 wing/speed without the 560 price. But I'm nervous about TKS. I like my boots as I can be reactive to ice instead of having to be proactive. Nearly every time I blast through the layer so quickly I don't need the boots. But if I had TKS I would have to turn it on ahead of time just in case. Chris, I've been counseled that while the SII looks tempting on paper, it has too many unique systems and unobtanium parts that aren't shared with the 500/501/550/551/560.
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Post subject: Re: Took my Citation up to Tarvers today. Posted: 24 Apr 2024, 12:30 |
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Joined: 11/06/20 Posts: 1323 Post Likes: +1306 Location: Tulsa, OK - KRVS
Aircraft: C501SP
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Username Protected wrote: Chris, I've been counseled that while the SII looks tempting on paper, it has too many unique systems and unobtanium parts that aren't shared with the 500/501/550/551/560. Yes, I have heard the same. It's ridiculous to even be thinking about upgrading when the 501 does all of my missions and for the price delta I could add a helicopter to the stable. But dreaming of the next thing is what keeps us motivated no?
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Post subject: Re: Took my Citation up to Tarvers today. Posted: 24 Apr 2024, 13:06 |
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Joined: 11/25/16 Posts: 1832 Post Likes: +1408 Location: 2IS
Aircraft: C501
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Username Protected wrote: Yes, I have heard the same. It's ridiculous to even be thinking about upgrading when the 501 does all of my missions and for the price delta I could add a helicopter to the stable. But dreaming of the next thing is what keeps us motivated no? Helicopter? I like where you're heading with this.
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Post subject: Re: Took my Citation up to Tarvers today. Posted: 24 Apr 2024, 13:57 |
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Joined: 09/11/09 Posts: 5327 Post Likes: +4263 Company: Looking Location: Tulsa, Ok
Aircraft: Baron/Bonanza
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Username Protected wrote: Yes, I have heard the same. It's ridiculous to even be thinking about upgrading when the 501 does all of my missions and for the price delta I could add a helicopter to the stable. But dreaming of the next thing is what keeps us motivated no? Helicopter? I like where you're heading with this.
That's to make the trip from where he lives, to the airport where he keeps the plane, quicker!
_________________ I don't have a problem with anger, I have a problem with idiots.
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Post subject: Re: Took my Citation up to Tarvers today. Posted: 25 Apr 2024, 07:12 |
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Joined: 11/07/11 Posts: 726 Post Likes: +413 Location: KBED, KCRE
Aircraft: Phenom 100
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It all adds up to total trip time, right? On that note, it's interesting to see John's tarmac movement time percentage (12.8%) is almost the exact same as mine (12%) for my flights the last few years. Wonder if this is pretty standard?
Chip-
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Post subject: Re: Took my Citation up to Tarvers today. Posted: 25 Apr 2024, 11:11 |
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Joined: 11/25/16 Posts: 1832 Post Likes: +1408 Location: 2IS
Aircraft: C501
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Username Protected wrote: It all adds up to total trip time, right? On that note, it's interesting to see John's tarmac movement time percentage (12.8%) is almost the exact same as mine (12%) for my flights the last few years. Wonder if this is pretty standard?
Chip- Chip, I really notice the difference at some of the airports. Palm Beach (KPBI) can be pretty bad for conga line departures and although I was number one for departure in Tucson it was a 3 mile taxi from FBO to the departure end of the runway. I cannot imagine regularly taxiing at Vegas or O'Hare.
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Post subject: Re: Took my Citation up to Tarvers today. Posted: 25 Apr 2024, 13:26 |
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Joined: 11/06/20 Posts: 1323 Post Likes: +1306 Location: Tulsa, OK - KRVS
Aircraft: C501SP
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Username Protected wrote: It all adds up to total trip time, right? On that note, it's interesting to see John's tarmac movement time percentage (12.8%) is almost the exact same as mine (12%) for my flights the last few years. Wonder if this is pretty standard?
Chip- Chip, I really notice the difference at some of the airports. Palm Beach (KPBI) can be pretty bad for conga line departures and although I was number one for departure in Tucson it was a 3 mile taxi from FBO to the departure end of the runway. I cannot imagine regularly taxiing at Vegas or O'Hare. I go into IAH a few times/year to visit my brother-in-law (live near Lake Houston so IAH is closest by a wide margin). One time I literally taxied for 6 miles. I don't have TRs or power brakes. The next day I could barely get out of bed my calves hurt so bad from pumping the brakes that long. It was after that I figured out my process to taxi on one engine and that has made a HUGE difference.
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