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27 Apr 2024, 10:13 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Record: 394,736 MPH
PostPosted: 03 Nov 2023, 13:24 
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Username Protected wrote:
The Parker probe has significantly less indicated airspeed and thus a lot less drag.

I doubt its KIAS is over 1 knot. But it isn't zero.


Yes, potentially the cap holds the airspeed record, but also only for a fraction of a second until it turned into a cloud of superheated, much slower gas.

Alternatively, if their calculations are wrong and it actually *did* make it into space (only 1.5 seconds or so to the Karman line at that speed!) having multiple times escape velocity, its airspeed has been lower than Parker's for decades now.


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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Record: 394,736 MPH
PostPosted: 03 Nov 2023, 18:40 
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Username Protected wrote:
I wonder how hot this probe gets at the perihelion point (4.51 million miles from the surface of the Sun).

"At closest approach to the Sun, while the front of Parker Solar Probe' solar shield faces temperatures approaching 2,600° Fahrenheit, or 1,400° Celsius, the spacecraft's payload will be near room temperature, at about 85° F."

https://parkersolarprobe.jhuapl.edu/The ... /index.php

The heat shield protects the spacecraft. If they lose orientation, the spacecraft will be destroyed in seconds.

More about the thermal design of the probe:

https://spectrum.ieee.org/how-the-parke ... th-the-sun

Mike C.


Thanks, I got no sleep worrying about this very same thing last night. :crazy:

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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Record: 394,736 MPH
PostPosted: 08 Nov 2023, 19:11 
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Not to mention that also it probably vaporized soon after, a whole lot less impressive to maintain that speed for a couple of seconds vs. years.

The Parker probe has significantly less indicated airspeed and thus a lot less drag.

I doubt its KIAS is over 1 knot. But it isn't zero.

Mike C.

What a great question. What is the indicated airspeed of 394,736mph when near the Sun?

I would love an actual physicist or aerodynamicist to answer. But I will take a wild swag at it.

I think the IAS/TAS ratio drops as the square root of density. (At least, near the earth it does. Density drops at 4%/thousand feet and ratio drops at 2%.)

There are like 2x10^19 molecules per cc at the earth’s surface. 4 million miles from the sun I am guessing more like 100. (Further out in the solar system I found numbers like 4/cc. So, I just am guessing something larger closer to the Sun.). So, the density ratio is like 2x10^17. With square root like 316x10^6. 394,736/316x10^6 = .0012. Converting to knots, this is like .001KIAS. Or, like 6 feet per second indicated.

For the fastest human object ever.

Well, that is my best crack at ball parking the indicated “air” speed. I might well suspect 1) I have done something totally wrong. 2) There is a meaningful difference between hydrogen ions (protons) and the nitrogen of our air. 3) Temperature is going to play in here somehow.

Anyone have a friend (or real skills) who could do this a bit more thoughtfully?

-Bill

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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Record: 394,736 MPH
PostPosted: 08 Nov 2023, 19:35 
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Does the location of the clock matter? Is the speed as measured on the probe different than what we observe with our clock on earth? After all, that probe is darn close to a stong gravitational field.

:)

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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Record: 394,736 MPH
PostPosted: 09 Nov 2023, 00:57 
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What a great question. What is the indicated airspeed of 394,736mph when near the Sun?

With square root like 316x10^6. 394,736/316x10^6 = .0012. Converting to knots, this is like .001KIAS. Or, like 6 feet per second indicated.

-Bill

Bill, seems like a reasonable order-of-magnitude estimate, but 0.001 knots is about 6 feet/hour, or 0.00167 fps or 0.51mm/sec.

Dick


Last edited on 09 Nov 2023, 13:32, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Record: 394,736 MPH
PostPosted: 09 Nov 2023, 02:24 
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Username Protected wrote:
Not to mention that also it probably vaporized soon after

I thought it actually reached orbit and became the first manmade satellite.

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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Record: 394,736 MPH
PostPosted: 09 Nov 2023, 10:58 
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Username Protected wrote:
I thought it actually reached orbit and became the first manmade satellite.

No way that is possible. Orbit requires up and then sideways. Just up won't do it, and just sideways won't do it. Given the projectile had no thrust capability, it can't make the trajectory work to reach orbit on a single impulse near the ground.

The supposed speed was faster than a meteorite and they burn up in the thin air of the upper atmosphere. Something near sea level will be vaporized nearly instantly.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Record: 394,736 MPH
PostPosted: 12 Nov 2023, 21:23 
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defintely cool!


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 Post subject: Re: New Speed Record: 394,736 MPH
PostPosted: 12 Nov 2023, 21:24 
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defintely cool!


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