PW610F is a possibility, as was used on the Eclipse.

It seems to have avoided some of the issues the PW615F has on the Mustang, and is now field proven.

Basically, Cirrus could have built a fiberglass version of the EA500 with Garmin avionics and it would be an OUTSTANDING airplane. The development time would have been much less, too, than all this nonsense with X tail, stability augmentations, thrust deflectors, and all the other crap the SF50 gained during certification due to the compromises of being a single. The plane would have flown higher, faster, used less fuel, be safer, be simpler, etc.

And then you could fly in the passenger cabin without headsets. Another "turboprop" feature the SF50 has. Yuck.

Mike C.

Mike

If Cirrus would have made a twin they could not tell everyone it's easier to transition to a singe jet from a single prop.

I really think this is one of the main reasons guys get a Visoin jet.

I will admit getting my twin was a lot of work and had me in a town prop to get experience. Wish I could have skipped that.

Mike.

Listen to the SR pilots talk about getting the SF50 type rating. It is pretty intense and a number of them wash out.


I got mine in two days, 10 total hours including check ride. ATP Schools in KBWG. It wasn't a lot of work. What did they make you do that made it so hard?

If a pilot is incapable of getting a multiengine rating, they have no business flying a jet regardless of how many engines it has. The ME rating is the easiest rating to get.

Mike C.

I just went down the friction stir welding rabbit hole on youtube - bummer it didn't work out for Eclipse but pretty cool ingenuity.

Chip-

When they sell the 1000th Vision Jet, Mike will still be hear to tell us what a terrible design it was. Yawn.

Listen to the SR pilots talk about getting the SF50 type rating. It is pretty intense and a number of them wash out.


I got mine in two days, 10 total hours including check ride. ATP Schools in KBWG. It wasn't a lot of work. What did they make you do that made it so hard?

If a pilot is incapable of getting a multiengine rating, they have no business flying a jet regardless of how many engines it has. The ME rating is the easiest rating to get.

Mike C.

Seems like there is always 500 visionjets and 200 SR22s calling for taxi on Monday mornings out of the "vision center" at TYS when I'm taxiing out and when I'm coming back home to TYS at the end of the week there is 500 more shooting approaches and touch n go's. I get vectored out on a 20 mile final and slowed to Vref behind a Visionjet.

If someone gifted me a Visionjet I surely wouldn't say no.

That Cirrus could have added a second engine and made a better plane is missing the point. The idea wasn't to create the best plane, it was to create a step up product for their existing customers.

Cirrus's whole goal is to keep customers in the Cirrus ecosystem. Keep in mind this is a company that successfully lobbied the FAA to change the Commercial pilot requirements to drop retractable gear so that their customers wouldn't have to lower themselves to fly an Arrow. (Which I kinda understand....I did my commercial in an Arrow it was a real turd.) They weren't going to go out and develop their own piston twin and the last thing they wanted was to force customers to slum around in a Seminole just to check a box on a way to the next Cirrus wunderkind.

My old Garmin rep had a lot of SR22 time and Cirrus let him fly a SF50. He flew it right out of the box. Brilliant! They created the perfect plane for their customers. It may not be for you and me, but that wasn't the goal.

I’ve flown the SF50. By far the most comfortable cockpit and easiest entry/exit I’ve experienced.

Say what you will about it, but it sells well and the people who are flying them seem to be getting good use from them.

I honestly have thought more than once about the necessary ratings to be hired to fly them. I’m fully aware of the saying, “The best jet is someone else’s jet.” Certainly 500 such aircraft present lots of aircraft that need repositioning flights, trips to maintenance facilities, post service test flights and so on behalf of busy owners.

Why do you think that wouldn't have been the case for a twin jet? What makes having two engines so much harder in normal flying?

Just move both levers as one, presto, no extra work.

When an engine fails, the twin is WAY less work than the single, that is for sure!

Mike C.

I lost the single vs twin debate years ago when I sold King Airs and Citations against Pilatus.

I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Cirrus comes out with a twin jet. The Mustang has no direct competition and Cirrus could fill that niche nicely.

They should keep the chute though, because fuel starvation seems to be one of the main reasons turbines quit turning.

Given their success with the SR22 and the SF50, I wonder if Cirrus is considering a larger twin turbine. I wouldn't bet against them.

There were 3 twin engine VLJ's based on the PW600 series engines that Mike suggested Cirrus should have used. The Eclipse and Mustang are out of production and have been for years. The Phenom 100 is still selling, but in smaller numbers than the Vision Jet.

Cirrus made the right choices, sold more jets than any of their twin engine competitors and they are still cranking them out. I would bet they are glad they didn't take Mike's expert advice. A perfectly example of an engineer understanding math but not the customers or the market.

The customers were sold a false religion.

Lots of bad products are market successes this way.

That doesn't make the single jet the better product. It is telling that essentially the entire customer base are piston pilots who don't know better. Nobody who understands jets are buying these things.

Mike C.

Seems the religion is Mike smart everyone else stupid.