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28 Mar 2024, 11:36 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Private Jets and the Environment
PostPosted: 24 May 2023, 18:32 
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I don’t know about you guys, but I avoid this problem by flying my jet mostly Outside of The Environment.


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 Post subject: Re: Private Jets and the Environment
PostPosted: 25 May 2023, 00:52 
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Username Protected wrote:
I don’t know about you guys, but I avoid this problem by flying my jet mostly Outside of The Environment.


I do the same. And for extra measure, I have a dedicated panel in the plane call the environmental control panel. This controls the environment to make sure that nothing goes wrong. If everyone would use these to control the environment, it would be just fine. Why are people so backwards??


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 Post subject: Re: Private Jets and the Environment
PostPosted: 25 May 2023, 04:56 
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When I was a kid, I was convinced (by the environmentalist of the time) that we were all going to freeze to death with global cooling from man made gases. Then we were all going to die from the holes in the ozone layer. Then we are all going to burn to death, from some academic predictions back then, some years ago. But with all this global warming, Utah and much of the west has had the largest snowfall in recorded history, and we will probably have widespread flooding this year. Funny how nature humbles the environmental scientists. Which is almost an oxymoron, because I have never seen an enviro publication that doesn’t smack of an agenda from the time it was funded. Real science doesn’t have an agenda. It starts with an honest question, hypothesis, and the real scientist is minimally emotional about the subsequent answer.


You don't have to be a genius to see all the mistaken predications over the years.

https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/18-spect ... this-year/

https://cei.org/blog/wrong-again-50-yea ... edictions/

https://www.energycapitaled.com/wp-cont ... ctions.pdf

https://nypost.com/2021/11/12/50-years- ... e-is-nigh/

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/al-gor ... oven-false


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 Post subject: Re: Private Jets and the Environment
PostPosted: 25 May 2023, 10:54 
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Username Protected wrote:
I don’t know about you guys, but I avoid this problem by flying my jet mostly Outside of The Environment.

I ship my plane by FedEx.

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 Post subject: Re: Private Jets and the Environment
PostPosted: 25 May 2023, 12:42 
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Username Protected wrote:
Our industry and namely the NBAA, should be responding to these people with...

YOU'RE JOKING RIGHT? :lol:

There's less than 24,000 private jets in the entire world.

There's 1441 BILLION cars in the world.

Private jets make up such a minute amount of the problem that it is laughable to even respond to the critics.
Might be missing a decimal point...


No sir!

There's 23,658 currently.

I guess it's possible that there may be a few thousand scattered around the world that aren't tracked, but it is still way fewer than most people think.

Even if you add the 15,976 turboprops and say that my data is incomplete and missing 10,000 airplanes... that' still less than 50,000 turbine private aircraft.

EDIT... sorry, you meant the number of cars.

Yes. 1.44 Billion!

That must have been typing with fat thumbs on my phone!
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 Post subject: Re: Private Jets and the Environment
PostPosted: 27 May 2023, 20:17 
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Username Protected wrote:
Business jets - hits all the notes: elite, mostly male, mostly white male, easily tracked, and low passenger miles per gallon.

Then SUVs.

Then private cars.

Then ribeyes and eggs.

Eat your crickets you racist-patriarchal-capitalist-cisgender reprobates.

https://time.com/5942290/eat-insects-save-planet/


Jane Fonda interview:

https://deadline.com/2023/05/jane-fonda ... 235380881/

Responding to an audience question she said, “It’s good for us all to realize, there would be no climate crisis if there was no racism. There would be no climate crisis if there was no patriarchy. A mindset that sees things in a hierarchical way. White men are the things that matter and then everything else [is] at the bottom.”

She added, “So when I say that I’m fighting the climate crisis, I also feel that I’m fighting patriarchy and racism.

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 Post subject: Re: Private Jets and the Environment
PostPosted: 27 May 2023, 20:19 
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:coffee: :coffee: :scratch: :scratch: :doh: :doh: :tape: :tape:


:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :whistle:

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 Post subject: Re: Private Jets and the Environment
PostPosted: 27 May 2023, 20:24 
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Username Protected wrote:
Business jets - hits all the notes: elite, mostly male, mostly white male, easily tracked, and low passenger miles per gallon.

Then SUVs.

Then private cars.

Then ribeyes and eggs.

Eat your crickets you racist-patriarchal-capitalist-cisgender reprobates.

https://time.com/5942290/eat-insects-save-planet/


Jane Fonda interview:

https://deadline.com/2023/05/jane-fonda ... 235380881/

Responding to an audience question she said, “It’s good for us all to realize, there would be no climate crisis if there was no racism. There would be no climate crisis if there was no patriarchy. A mindset that sees things in a hierarchical way. White men are the things that matter and then everything else [is] at the bottom.”

She added, “So when I say that I’m fighting the climate crisis, I also feel that I’m fighting patriarchy and racism.



It’s hilarious when “celebrities” think they are relevant, they are basically somewhere between a dancing monkey and the court jester

I frankly care about my dogs opinion over theirs

go tell a joke or shake your ass, that’s your usefulness

Jane Fonda, she was never that funny and she’s too old for anyone wanting to see that, so maybe just be quiet

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 Post subject: Re: Private Jets and the Environment
PostPosted: 27 May 2023, 21:41 
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Oy Vey.

Being lectured by Hanoi Jane. There's some high frickin' moral ground.

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 Post subject: Re: Private Jets and the Environment
PostPosted: 28 May 2023, 00:06 
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Saying that since the upper 1% are so few, that they couldn't possibly be responsible for environmental impacts, doesnt ring true.

The basic measure of the intensity of Env. impact is GDP. Next is the CO2 component of industrial operations. Are these employee owned?

Example: which person has a higher Env Impact; a Guy living in a single wide and driving an F150 to work or a guy who owns enough business and operates a C550 routinely.

Think of the economic multiplier a business has; its vendors, its employees, its taxes, its utilities. Big Business (and small) are complex webs of people spendng money to buy things, make things and consume things like fuel, food, equipment.

Is it equal. Dont know. There are a lot of F150s out there an thier ownrs work for businesses that make and spend a lot.

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 Post subject: Re: Private Jets and the Environment
PostPosted: 28 May 2023, 09:01 
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Fonda also said in the same interview

“We still have reason to be hopeful if we do everything right. But I’m saying this is serious. We’ve got about seven, eight years to cut ourselves in half of what we use of fossil fuels,” she said. “And unfortunately, the people that have the least responsibility for it are hit the hardest — Global South, people on islands, poor people of color. It is a tragedy that we have to absolutely stop. We have to arrest and jail those men — they’re all men – [responsible for the crisis].”

So if they have their way we’ll be eating our crickets in jail. Of course it’ll have to be for a violation of an expostofacto law as it’s not currently illegal to fly a personal jet or drive an SUV.

https://deadline.com/2023/05/jane-fonda ... 235380881/

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 Post subject: Re: Private Jets and the Environment
PostPosted: 28 May 2023, 12:34 
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Username Protected wrote:
An interesting discussion about the carbon impact of air travel is to total up the expenses and carbon penalty of perhaps taking a ship from the US to Europe or the additional carbon cost of someone taking several days to go from LA to the east coast.

in general when I do the back of the envelope calculations if a person needs to be across the country it is less expensive in many ways to fly. we use a lot of energy when we stay a motel and eat out on a trip.

after you know a client, many times Zoom with work for some meetings but there is nothing that replaces a face to face meeting.

also how many people will take a week to go to and from Florida to see Grandma and Grandpa. nothing replaces an in person hug.


Of course flying is the preferred method of travel on long distances, but when it comes to jet travel, it's about carbon emissions per passenger seat mile. Private jets lose big time when compared to airliners, consideration for convenience aside.

When I was flying corporate jets, there was seldom more than 3 or 4 onboard, including crew.


Last edited on 28 May 2023, 12:36, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Private Jets and the Environment
PostPosted: 28 May 2023, 12:35 
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I think the most fair measure is CO2 (and other externalities like noise and lead emissions) divided by the economic value produced.

The latter is very fuzzy to describe but at least we can make a stab at it by assuming economic value is related to costs (simplistic economics would suggest this).

In that case the jet is probably not so different from the truck for CO2 - fuel is a significant fraction of both of their lifetime costs. Other externalities take more thought. I suspect GA produced lead is far higher per economic value than other sources of lead.


Username Protected wrote:
Saying that since the upper 1% are so few, that they couldn't possibly be responsible for environmental impacts, doesnt ring true.

The basic measure of the intensity of Env. impact is GDP. Next is the CO2 component of industrial operations. Are these employee owned?

Example: which person has a higher Env Impact; a Guy living in a single wide and driving an F150 to work or a guy who owns enough business and operates a C550 routinely.

Think of the economic multiplier a business has; its vendors, its employees, its taxes, its utilities. Big Business (and small) are complex webs of people spendng money to buy things, make things and consume things like fuel, food, equipment.

Is it equal. Dont know. There are a lot of F150s out there an thier ownrs work for businesses that make and spend a lot.


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