banner
banner

28 Mar 2024, 14:30 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Concorde Battery (banner)



Reply to topic  [ 65 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: Re: New CE-500 owner joined the club
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2023, 12:31 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 12/01/12
Posts: 490
Post Likes: +338
Aircraft: AA1B,PA28,PA18,CE500
Yes there is a range penalty. Not as bad as one would think though. As Mike pointed out with full tanks I’m not going to 400-410 until I burn some fuel. So the first part of the flight from fl280 vs fl340 isn’t that big of a deal.
Example for today using foreflight performance plus profile.
ANE to MIA direct
fl270 4:08 #3900 (23kts tailwind)
fl410 4:14 #3400 (8kts tailwind)
Tanks hold #4510.
I could stretch range for both by really slowing down.
Install to go RVSM will run probably around 12k. So totally worth it. Besides why have a jet limited to turboprop altitudes.
To really stretch the range you need to be sure of your planning, fly slow, and be comfortable landing at min reserves of #700 or VFR about #500.
But living in MN the range of 1400NM gets me about anywhere nonstop in the US. Islands or Mexico would obviously take a stop.


Top

 Post subject: Re: New CE-500 owner joined the club
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2023, 13:11 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 07/24/14
Posts: 1754
Post Likes: +2213
Username Protected wrote:

I also recall days where the 560s were selling for $300K too! Times have changed.
And you, Mr. Klingon Jet, are part to blame! :bat: :cheers:

_________________
Jay


Top

 Post subject: Re: New CE-500 owner joined the club
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2023, 13:24 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 19252
Post Likes: +23612
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
But living in MN the range of 1400NM gets me about anywhere nonstop in the US.

I question that for non RVSM 501 with the Eagle fuel mod, particularly going west in winter.

Once you get fully operational, I would carefully expand your range envelope to make sure you aren't being too optimistic.

Winds will have a pretty big impact, too. The mythical still air range is something I almost never see.

Mike C.

_________________
Email mikec (at) ciholas.com


Top

 Post subject: Re: New CE-500 owner joined the club
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2023, 13:32 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/25/12
Posts: 3711
Post Likes: +3661
Location: KRHV San Jose, CA
Aircraft: A36, R44, C525
I am pretty sure you only need RVSM if flying international now.

In 2019 the FAA issued Notice N8900.500 and Advisory Circular 91-85B – Authorization of Aircraft and Operators for Flight in Reduced Vertical Separation Minimum (RVSM) Airspace, which provide clarification and guidance for RVSM operations of aircraft with qualified ADS-B Out equipment in lieu of an authorization. Operators no longer need an LOA, OpSpec or Mspec unless they are operating without ADS-B Out-equipment or they are operating outside of U.S. Airspace.

_________________
Rocky Hill

Altitude is Everything.


Top

 Post subject: Re: New CE-500 owner joined the club
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2023, 14:03 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 11/30/12
Posts: 4006
Post Likes: +4410
Location: Santa Fe, NM (KSAF)
Aircraft: B200, 500B
Username Protected wrote:
I am pretty sure you only need RVSM if flying international now.

In 2019 the FAA issued Notice N8900.500 and Advisory Circular 91-85B – Authorization of Aircraft and Operators for Flight in Reduced Vertical Separation Minimum (RVSM) Airspace, which provide clarification and guidance for RVSM operations of aircraft with qualified ADS-B Out equipment in lieu of an authorization. Operators no longer need an LOA, OpSpec or Mspec unless they are operating without ADS-B Out-equipment or they are operating outside of U.S. Airspace.

That doesn't mean you can just go flying up into RVSM airspace. It's been covered in great detail in other threads, but here are the cliff notes:

https://nbaa.org/aircraft-operations/co ... -approval/

Currently ASE measurement verification is only being performed for flights on Mondays, but it appears that they are using GMT time - so a late flight on Sunday will work for most operators.

_________________
Be Nice


Top

 Post subject: Re: New CE-500 owner joined the club
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2023, 14:09 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/25/12
Posts: 3711
Post Likes: +3661
Location: KRHV San Jose, CA
Aircraft: A36, R44, C525
But for now its a lot easier then hiring someone to write the RVSM and then get it approved at the FSDO. I think my RVSM process took about a month and a half.

_________________
Rocky Hill

Altitude is Everything.


Top

 Post subject: Re: New CE-500 owner joined the club
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2023, 16:24 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 12/01/12
Posts: 490
Post Likes: +338
Aircraft: AA1B,PA28,PA18,CE500
Username Protected wrote:
But living in MN the range of 1400NM gets me about anywhere nonstop in the US.

I question that for non RVSM 501 with the Eagle fuel mod, particularly going west in winter.

Once you get fully operational, I would carefully expand your range envelope to make sure you aren't being too optimistic.

Winds will have a pretty big impact, too. The mythical still air range is something I almost never see.

Mike C.


Well then you haven’t seen my unicorn jet. It farts rainbows that will take me all the way west even in 100kt headwinds

Of course I know it won’t make it all the west reliably especially in the winter. You do know this obviously isn’t my first time flying a jet. Someone made a 22year reference when I mentioned insurance rate. But yes for the fence sitters it will most likely do 90% of my missions 90% of the time non stop. Haven’t tried to go to SAN yet, so that’s in the other 10%. For my size family and our trips it’s actually more than I need. So a V which is unquestionably a better performer in all aspects would be a waste of usable capital at this point. Unless I had a crystal ball and knew they would go up in value like yours did. Problem is that really doesn’t matter. If you sold yours it would cost the same or more to replace and an upgrade would cost more with little benefit.

A nicely equipped 500 for less than 500k or a 501 for a little more is really an awesome way to get around.

Top

 Post subject: Re: New CE-500 owner joined the club
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2023, 17:47 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 03/23/08
Posts: 6908
Post Likes: +3552
Company: AssuredPartners Aerospace Phx.
Location: KDVT, 46U
Aircraft: IAR823, LrJet, 240Z
Congrats! That's probably all the plane a person ever needs!
Tj

_________________
Tom Johnson-Az/Wy
AssuredPartners Aerospace Insurance
Tj.Johnson@AssuredPartners.com
C: 602-628-2701


Top

 Post subject: Re: New CE-500 owner joined the club
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2023, 18:03 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/01/10
Posts: 3431
Post Likes: +2381
Location: Roseburg, Oregon
Aircraft: Citation Mustang
Nice going, Todd. Congratulations. Looking forward to your pireps.

_________________
Previous A36TN owner


Top

 Post subject: Re: New CE-500 owner joined the club
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2023, 18:28 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 01/22/17
Posts: 99
Post Likes: +77
Location: KPHN
Aircraft: B-60, C-421, HS-125
Username Protected wrote:
Congrats on the purchase. I have to stop reading these citation threads, it's potentially damaging to my bank account.


Congratulations Todd! If Isaac or Ken lived closer I'd off my Duke, partner up with them... happy ever after :D

_________________
In my world, two things are meant to be burned... fuel and money.


Top

 Post subject: Re: New CE-500 owner joined the club
PostPosted: 21 Mar 2023, 13:17 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 11/06/20
Posts: 1276
Post Likes: +1270
Location: Tulsa, OK - KRVS
Aircraft: C501SP
Username Protected wrote:
No anti skid, I take it?

I think it would be quite hard to flat spot tires on a Citation. As it is, I hardly use brakes with TRs anyway. So I wouldn't be too worried about this.

I have no anti-skid and no TRs. Super simple to operate (and maintain) and I have never skidded a tire. Granted I don't think I have gone into any runways <4,000' and only a few times when contaminated (though one of those was patchy snow at KAXX and she handled perfectly).

I verify that I have pressure on my toes on final and then I'll let her roll for a bit with the speedbrakes out before using the wheel brakes. At my home 'drome (5,102') I always take the last turnoff. Controllers know me now and always give me a "turn right at the end, contact ground." :rofl:


Top

 Post subject: Re: New CE-500 owner joined the club
PostPosted: 21 Mar 2023, 13:47 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 19252
Post Likes: +23612
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
I have no anti-skid and no TRs. Super simple to operate (and maintain) and I have never skidded a tire.

My TRs have cost me $0 so far. We will see how that turns out long term, but the indication is that they pay for themselves in reduced tire and brake wear.

My brakes and tires are lasting forever. I'm looking at 2000 landings or more for my brakes. That's wild compared to what I hear for the CJ series.

The main benefit of TRs is not the power reverse time on the runway after landing, it is the cut down of idle thrust on the rest of the rollout. I'm glad I have them.

Quote:
Granted I don't think I have gone into any runways <4,000' and only a few times when contaminated (though one of those was patchy snow at KAXX and she handled perfectly).

KAXX at 8900 ft should be no problem at all.

I have used a runway under 4000 ft only once but stopped in 1400 ft.

A no brake landing:

[youtube]https://youtu.be/3LlvSjGqPVY[/youtube]

A short field landing:

[youtube]https://youtu.be/FJP761KdTfs[/youtube]

Mike C.

_________________
Email mikec (at) ciholas.com


Top

 Post subject: Re: New CE-500 owner joined the club
PostPosted: 21 Mar 2023, 17:47 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 11/06/20
Posts: 1276
Post Likes: +1270
Location: Tulsa, OK - KRVS
Aircraft: C501SP
Yeah, I was referring more to the power brakes than the TRs regarding the simpler to maintain comment. TRs seem to be pretty bulletproof and a nice option. But the rest of my airplane package was irresistible and the price was right. My brakes seem to be lasting well also but I have oversized brakes due to the GW STC while I rarely operate at those weights. I do wish I had TRs for long taxis though. A few months back I was at KIAH and I swear we taxied a couple of miles. My calves were actually sore the next morning. On arrival I will shut one engine down to taxi and that helps a ton but this was on departure. I wasn't sure if I would lose my avionics when starting the second one and I didn't want to hold up the conga line while I re-entered all my v-speeds, flight plan (though that's the fastest part w/ the FS510), initial altitude, etc.


Top

 Post subject: Re: New CE-500 owner joined the club
PostPosted: 21 Mar 2023, 17:53 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 12/01/12
Posts: 490
Post Likes: +338
Aircraft: AA1B,PA28,PA18,CE500
Username Protected wrote:
Yeah, I was referring more to the power brakes than the TRs regarding the simpler to maintain comment. TRs seem to be pretty bulletproof and a nice option. But the rest of my airplane package was irresistible and the price was right. My brakes seem to be lasting well also but I have oversized brakes due to the GW STC while I rarely operate at those weights. I do wish I had TRs for long taxis though. A few months back I was at KIAH and I swear we taxied a couple of miles. My calves were actually sore the next morning. On arrival I will shut one engine down to taxi and that helps a ton but this was on departure. I wasn't sure if I would lose my avionics when starting the second one and I didn't want to hold up the conga line while I re-entered all my v-speeds, flight plan (though that's the fastest part w/ the FS510), initial altitude, etc.


You have all Garmin? They should stay alive during a start.


Top

 Post subject: Re: New CE-500 owner joined the club
PostPosted: 21 Mar 2023, 18:08 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 11/06/20
Posts: 1276
Post Likes: +1270
Location: Tulsa, OK - KRVS
Aircraft: C501SP
Username Protected wrote:
You have all Garmin? They should stay alive during a start.

Yep! Dual G600 and Dual GTN750. That's great to hear. I really need to try this but I'm always headed somewhere and don't want a delay in case it does puke. My battery often drops to 12-14V during a start but now that you got me thinking about it, the Garmin's run in 12V piston aircraft so it should be fine...... :scratch:


Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 65 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next




You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2024

.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.bpt-85x50-2019-07-27.jpg.
.wat-85x50.jpg.
.aircraftferry-85x50.jpg.
.airmart-85x150.png.
.kingairnation-85x50.png.
.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.lucysaviation-85x50.png.
.CiESVer2.jpg.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.
.sierratrax-85x50.png.
.Wentworth_85x100.JPG.
.blackwell-85x50.png.
.jetacq-85x50.jpg.
.kingairacademy-85x100.png.
.headsetsetc_Small_85x50.jpg.
.midwest2.jpg.
.aircraftassociates-85x50.png.
.ei-85x150.jpg.
.SCA.jpg.
.tat-85x100.png.
.pure-medical-85x150.png.
.avfab-85x50-2018-12-04.png.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.aeroled-85x50-2022-12-06.jpg.
.centex-85x50.jpg.
.bullardaviation-85x50-2.jpg.
.stanmusikame-85x50.jpg.
.Foreflight_85x50_color.png.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.jandsaviation-85x50.jpg.
.saint-85x50.jpg.
.blackhawk-85x100-2019-09-25.jpg.
.concorde.jpg.
.one-mile-up-85x100.png.
.tempest.jpg.
.Rocky-Mountain-Turbine-85x100.jpg.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.ssv-85x50-2023-12-17.jpg.
.Genesys_85x50.jpg.
.camguard.jpg.
.kadex-85x50.jpg.
.wilco-85x100.png.
.dbm.jpg.
.Latitude.jpg.
.avionwealth-85x50.png.
.traceaviation-85x150.png.
.Marsh.jpg.
.boomerang-85x50-2023-12-17.png.
.shortnnumbers-85x100.png.
.chairmanaviation-85x50.jpg.
.cav-85x50.jpg.
.AAI.jpg.
.daytona.jpg.
.gallagher_85x50.jpg.
.Wingman 85x50.png.