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 Post subject: Talk me into / out of a Meridian
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2023, 18:42 
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With my goal to fly the family around all summer and see all 4 corners of the country, I'd like to do it in style and comfort, in the flight levels and in air conditioned pressurized comfort. I'd like the reliability of at least one turbine and think the meridian makes a lot of sense for us. Is it a good choice or are there better options?


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 Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2023, 19:00 
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Jason,

Charles will be along shortly to tell you why the Meridian is the best airplane for you. And he could be right, he certainly knows a lot about them.

But it would be helpful in answering your question if you gave us some information to work with:

1. CAPEX budget.
2. Annual budget.
3. How many miles per year do you want to fly.
4. How many Pax and sizes of those pax.
5. How much "stuff" do you need/want to carry (volume and pounds).
6. How long does your family feel "comfortable" flying before stopping and how far do you want to go.
7. How experienced are you in flying in the flight levels, need/want RVSM, have any particular avionics requirements, etc.

_________________
Travel Air B4000, Waco UBF2,UMF3,YMF5, UPF7,YKS 6, Fairchild 24W, Cessna 120
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 Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2023, 19:14 
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MU-2

Just kidding. I had to. Like Tony said, fill in those parameters for the best answers. Experience and hours/ratings would help too.


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 Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2023, 20:08 
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Joined: 12/03/14
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Company: Ciholas, Inc
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Username Protected wrote:
I'd like the reliability of at least one turbine and think the meridian makes a lot of sense for us. Is it a good choice or are there better options?

Every airplane is judged by what it does for the money it costs. My suggestion will be based on the fact you indicated a Meridian is within your purchase budget.

I suspect you could buy a Citation 501 in good shape, and pay for all of its fuel, for what a Meridian will cost. The Citation will be a far better family transport.

It will require you get a type rating, but you will also be a better trained pilot after that and thus safer, too.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2023, 20:09 
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So while I think the Meridian is a great plane, it isn't what I think of as family go around the country plane. jetA planes, in general, are great when you have a schedule you really want to adhere to. Bad weather in the way, at your destination, at your point of origin....jetA planes as a whole handle this so much better. Dispatch reliability, again jetA shines. All of that comes at a cost.

The issue in my mind, for a family fun trip delaying a day doesn't matter. If the weather is bad at your intended destination why are you going? If the weather is going to get bad you just leave early. In short you are so flexible you don't need the advantages the Meridian gives you.

Your choice of the Meridian means you will be weight limited. They just weren't designed to carry tons of stuff. Not a bad thing, just a limitation.

If it was me, and I wanted pressurized comfort I would look at 421C. Just as quiet or quieter than Meridian, family can strech out and be comfortable. Emergency potty doable. To me it makes more sense for what you described. Even if the costs were the same (i.e. you were spending the same amount of money to acquire one) I think the 421 makes more sense.

As a general principle, I think of turboprops as needing a job. i.e. a reason they need to exist. they aren't just I just want to fly for the sake of flying. Of course if you have the money you don't need a reason, but if that is the case I would buy an Eclipse jet instead of a Meridian. OPEX higher, a strange ecosystem, but jets are nice :D


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 Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2023, 20:19 
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We're interested in a Meridian as well, so will be paying close attention.

FWIW, we're mainly 2 people, rarely 4, need at least 50-800 miles.


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 Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2023, 21:34 
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Well you know what I'm going to say, a 501 makes a lot more sense to me than a Meridian IMO.


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 Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2023, 21:37 
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Joined: 08/23/15
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Location: South Jersey KVAY
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Meridian is a great machine but range really seems to be its downfall... unless your talking about the m600 which is an entirely different beast.


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 Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2023, 21:40 
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Username Protected wrote:
I'd like the reliability of at least one turbine and think the meridian makes a lot of sense for us. Is it a good choice or are there better options?

Every airplane is judged by what it does for the money it costs. My suggestion will be based on the fact you indicated a Meridian is within your purchase budget.

I suspect you could buy a Citation 501 in good shape, and pay for all of its fuel, for what a Meridian will cost. The Citation will be a far better family transport.

It will require you get a type rating, but you will also be a better trained pilot after that and thus safer, too.

Mike C.


Isn't the maintenance and up keep on a 501 significantly more than a Meridian.

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 Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2023, 22:51 
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Username Protected wrote:
Isn't the maintenance and up keep on a 501 significantly more than a Meridian.

Like I said, the economic parameters define everything about what is best.

A million dollars cheaper pays for a lot of maintenance and fuel. Especially when you consider the things tied to hull value like insurance, taxes, cost of money, etc.

Also, on a LUMP plan, you don't do very many inspections. Phase 1-4 every 3 years, phase 5 every 6 years, so it isn't in the shop very much.

The safety difference is undeniable. There wasn't a single fatal accident of a US registered business jet last year, and many millions of miles were flown.

The original poster said they wanted to do it in "style and comfort". No Meridian can compete with a jet on that.

BTW, KDAY has some of the cheapest jet fuel in the country at just a bit over $4 right now (CAA program).

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2023, 23:00 
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Joined: 03/17/18
Posts: 498
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Location: KDAY
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Username Protected wrote:
Jason,

1. CAPEX budget.
I'm comfortable going up to 1.3mm
2. Annual budget.
I'd like to keep it under 100k a year
3. How many miles per year do you want to fly.
That's unknown. This is the first year without my prior business so I'm hoping a lot.
4. How many Pax and sizes of those pax.
Wife 180, kids currently 25 and 35 lbs but guaranteed to grow. Occasionally a mom or mother in law.
5. How much "stuff" do you need/want to carry (volume and pounds).
Just a couple bags for clothing, some kids stuff, and sometimes some beach gear.
6. How long does your family feel "comfortable" flying before stopping and how far do you want to go.
Before we had kids, wife was good for +/- 3 hour legs. I'd say 2-3 hour legs now with the family. Wife just said she is looking at South Carolina May for a possibility for our May trip, looks like maybe 600 miles there, depending on where we end up. I'd say most trips would be similar length until we start going out west.
7. How experienced are you in flying in the flight levels, need/want RVSM,
No experience up there.
have any particular avionics requirements, etc.
Negative


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 Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2023, 23:03 
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Joined: 03/17/18
Posts: 498
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Location: KDAY
Aircraft: BE36
Username Protected wrote:

BTW, KDAY has some of the cheapest jet fuel in the country at just a bit over $4 right now (CAA program).

Mike C.

That FBO is where I am. I noticed and appreciate that.

Are the phase inspection costs detailed anywhere? Not knowing about them has made me apprehensive to consider a 501 too seriously.


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 Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2023, 23:33 
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Joined: 09/02/09
Posts: 8415
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Company: OAA
Location: Oklahoma City - PWA/Calistoga KSTS
Aircraft: UMF3, UBF 2, P180 II
Username Protected wrote:
Jason,

1. CAPEX budget.
I'm comfortable going up to 1.3mm
2. Annual budget.
I'd like to keep it under 100k a year
3. How many miles per year do you want to fly.
That's unknown. This is the first year without my prior business so I'm hoping a lot.
4. How many Pax and sizes of those pax.
Wife 180, kids currently 25 and 35 lbs but guaranteed to grow. Occasionally a mom or mother in law.
5. How much "stuff" do you need/want to carry (volume and pounds).
Just a couple bags for clothing, some kids stuff, and sometimes some beach gear.
6. How long does your family feel "comfortable" flying before stopping and how far do you want to go.
Before we had kids, wife was good for +/- 3 hour legs. I'd say 2-3 hour legs now with the family. Wife just said she is looking at South Carolina May for a possibility for our May trip, looks like maybe 600 miles there, depending on where we end up. I'd say most trips would be similar length until we start going out west.
7. How experienced are you in flying in the flight levels, need/want RVSM,
No experience up there.
have any particular avionics requirements, etc.
Negative


It looks like a Meridian would work for you from a space, load, comfort and range perspective. It's a fine airplane and has excellent operating economics. Much safer in a turbine than piston. Charles Ivester has posted a lot of information about his experiences and, all kidding aside, I would suggest searching for his posts and threads as a great primer on capabilities. It should also be a simple matter to arrange a demo flight with the local dealer to try it on for size.

Your capital budget is probably a bit light for a TBM but I haven't looked at market prices in quite a while. But your operating budget could perhaps come close to working. Maybe some current owners will chime in. It would certainly be more comfortable as it's bigger and heavier.

After that you would need to start looking at twins and an MU2 would be tough to beat for acquisition costs, operating expense, support, room and range but unless you have a few hundred hours of twin time I'd wonder about insurance. Maybe Tom will opine.

When I've run numbers on King Airs I can never get them to work out as not expensive. Commanders are awesome airplanes and you could get a nice one for your capital budget. It would be something I'd take a hard look at if you have twin time. Comfortable, fast, roomy, good range, nice to fly. Bruce is the guy who can advise you if your annual budget would work.

I'd rather have, for your mission, a TBM, Commander, MU2, Meridian in that order. I'd think hard about that even if you have to hire a mentor pilot for a while - in fact with precious cargo onboard that'd be a great idea anyway. I don't think you can buy, maintain, run and train in a legacy jet unless you dedicate some of your capital expense to opex. But my guess is that if you can Mike will have the facts figured out and advise you well.

I didn't ask, and you didn't say, how many hours you have, in what type of equipment, etc. and that would obviously be another critical component of your decision. Certainly, the Piper is probably a shorter step up coming from a piston single than the others and might be much more comfortable for you to get your feet wet with turbine and flight level ops. Something only you and your insurance agent can figure out. A call to that individual would be high on my priority list of things to do.
_________________
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 Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian
PostPosted: 23 Feb 2023, 00:35 
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Joined: 09/09/12
Posts: 2282
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Company: Benjamin Law Firm
Aircraft: Meridian
Had my meridian for a little over a year now. Love it! Tomorrow is an example of its benefits and limitations. KDNA—KBOI, BUT i have to stop at Abq to be comfortable going into BOI with fuel.

You can figure 1660 or so for UL. Full fuel is 1148 lbs.
Stupid simple to fly.
Insurance will be 1.5%-2% of hull probably.
Required training and mentor time to start. That was good.



Feel free to reach out.


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 Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian
PostPosted: 23 Feb 2023, 00:42 
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Joined: 03/23/08
Posts: 6908
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Company: AssuredPartners Aerospace Phx.
Location: KDVT, 46U
Aircraft: IAR823, LrJet, 240Z
Got your IFR? And ideally Commercial?
The Pa46 have put a beating on insurance Carriers the last few years.

A good solid analysis of where you are and where you want to get to is probably worth a little spreadsheet time.

Congrats on the business sales. Good timing on CapGains at least.

Tj

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