18 Apr 2024, 20:28 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
|
Username Protected |
Message |
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian Posted: 18 Mar 2023, 00:13 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23622 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
|
|
Username Protected wrote: If I was in the market, I would absolutely NOT buy a PA46T. If you want low opex, but don't mind the capex, go for it. It is very nice design overall. Quote: If you are gonna make the jump to turbine, go to the Citation. 501SP is good, but rare. 560 seems to be the sweet spot. 501 is not that rare, makes a very good first jet. 560 is too expensive now, plus comes with SPE requirements that block first time turbine pilots. If you can get SPE, then an S550 makes a pretty good "560 light" jet. TKS is a little weird, and it is kind of whimpy on performance, but much better than a 501 in terms of speed and range. Quote: But…if you are gonna make the jump, just go to jet. You have to be emotionally compatible with paying a lot for fuel in lieu of the invisible money you would be losing on the high hull value of another choice. If you can't make that work, then a jet is not for you. If you can do it, it is awesome and it will be hard to go back to anything else. Your own personal airliner, safe, fast, and comfortable. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian Posted: 18 Mar 2023, 04:28 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 05/25/11 Posts: 32 Post Likes: +2 Location: Bozeman
Aircraft: In Between
|
|
Username Protected wrote: With my goal to fly the family around all summer and see all 4 corners of the country, I'd like to do it in style and comfort, in the flight levels and in air conditioned pressurized comfort. I'd like the reliability of at least one turbine and think the meridian makes a lot of sense for us. Is it a good choice or are there better options? Jason, I think you’re on point with a Meridian based on your current mission. Saddle up for the capex, training, insurance and mtnc for a year then flip the aircraft or not. The turbine time and flight level experience will help with the next step. There is a great market for single engine turbine in the price point. TBM is the next price point due to capex and parts costs. As Chip wrote a paper on TBM vs Mustang. The C501 is a great platform once you have the turbine time, type rating and the insurance plan. But for stepping up from an A36… the size of the step is what most are speaking of based on hind sight. There is no doubt that a jet is simpler to manage in an engine out than a piston. It starts with six levers to interface with vs 2. The Meridian is a great next step to fly something Jet A SP soon. You can always do the multi-engine piston, multi-engine turbine then multi-engine jet. Yes there is comfort in dual engines. I have not piloted a single engine anything since 2005. But somewhere I read that the odds of a single engine turbine having a specific power plant failure (not fueling or pilot error) is the same odds as a multi engine piston having a simultaneous dual engine failure (which as far as I know has only happened with a fueling issue). I am not sure how much dual insurance and your own personal minimums will require transitioning from piston to SETP but it will be less that multi engine jet. With your current age and stage of family the Meridian should work fine. As they grow so will the turbine time and the next step to something dual engine. Seeing is believing. A demo flight in a Meridian would be great for your wife. Even just getting into the plane is a different experience than an bonanza with an air stair vs climbing onto the wing. The panel of the Meridian you showed looks cleaner that a legacy steam panel. My wife said the panel of the Mustang made her more at ease than the panel of the Baron with Aspens and GNS530s or C501 with GTN 750s. She knows the C501 was just as safe as the C510, but in a pinch she felt more comfortable bringing the C510 back to terra firma. The only thing I have reservations about are the Meggit engine gauges. I am ignorant of the replacement options. But there are options based on other panels. I added rough range, load and duration plus fuel burn from ForeFlight profiles. What I should do is add Bonanza and Baron profiles to this chart just for proper step comparison. The reserves are conservative. Happy hunting.
Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian Posted: 18 Mar 2023, 06:27 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 08/24/13 Posts: 8450 Post Likes: +3687 Company: Aviation Tools / CCX Location: KSMQ New Jersey
Aircraft: TBM700C2
|
|
Username Protected wrote: The only thing I have reservations about are the Meggit engine gauges. I am ignorant of the replacement options. The Garmin G500TXi with EIS can replace the Meggit gauges.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian Posted: 18 Mar 2023, 12:36 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 05/25/11 Posts: 32 Post Likes: +2 Location: Bozeman
Aircraft: In Between
|
|
Thanks Terry. That sounds like a clean alternative.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian Posted: 18 Mar 2023, 16:46 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 10/23/19 Posts: 18 Post Likes: +10 Location: 18AZ
Aircraft: 2001 Piper Meridian
|
|
Quote: Yes, the insurance cost will shock you For $900K hull, what are typical insurance premiums? Great question and I have the exact answer. Mine is $900K value, I'm a 650 hour Commercial, IFR, Single rated pilot on my second year in the Meridian. Transitioned to it from a Cirrus at around 450 hours. First year policy was $19K, renewal went down to $17K, which I was told I should be thankful for and bind the policy, which I did. Who wouldn't want to fly a jet? But in today's world for me at 650 hours, a 510 or CJ/CJ1, Insurance $ is currently my deal breaker. Once I get to 1000 hours +, I'll reevaluate. I flew in a 501SP, it was cool, but wasn't screaming my name even at a $400K purchase price. Additionally, I fly out of a 4000x50' strip with a slope and no instrument approaches. Hopefully in the next two years my name comes up on the Deer Valley airport hanger list and then, legal takeoff distances aren't a problem in the AZ heat. Thanks, Patrick
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian Posted: 18 Mar 2023, 16:48 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 10/23/19 Posts: 18 Post Likes: +10 Location: 18AZ
Aircraft: 2001 Piper Meridian
|
|
Username Protected wrote: The only thing I have reservations about are the Meggit engine gauges. I am ignorant of the replacement options. The Garmin G500TXi with EIS can replace the Meggit gauges.
Correct. Full Garmin suite with EIS will remove the Meggitt DAU and eliminate all Meggit concerns for.
As for the older Meggit parts, I sold all of mine in a matter of days to others that needed spares or were AOG looking for a part. Support is basically non-existent from what I understand.
Thanks, Patrick
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian Posted: 18 Mar 2023, 16:55 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 08/16/15 Posts: 2895 Post Likes: +3603 Location: Ogden UT
Aircraft: Piper M600
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Thanks Grant.
This thread talks about running the legacy citation engines well past TBO with just HSIs. Is that commonplace or possible on part 91 for the The PT 46 in a meridian? Not sure how commonplace, but yes it is legal. You can even put the engine on the MOR program which is an STC that monitors the health of the engine with some additional inspections. After 3600 hours, a PT6 is barely broken in, but there are some parts that need to be monitored.
_________________ Chuck Ivester Piper M600 Ogden UT
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian Posted: 18 Mar 2023, 17:00 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 08/16/15 Posts: 2895 Post Likes: +3603 Location: Ogden UT
Aircraft: Piper M600
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Our 2001 also does NOT have the GWI and while I wish it did, its not worth the $80K for me today. Wow, you'd think that STC was for a jet at that price. Is the STC just paperwork? No actual change to the airplane? Just changing some numbers? Wink, wink, say no more. Mike C.
The reason the Meridian is GW limited is not performance, but it is due to the stall speed. Being a single engine it has to stall at or below 61 KCAS at GW and most adverse CG. The GW increase among other things adds VG's across the wing and under the elevator. This decreases stall speed. That is how you end up with a max weight of exactly 5092 after the GW increase. This is the weight at which it stalls at 61 KCAS in most adverse CG. The plane still climbs 1500 fpm at GW, so plenty of performance.
_________________ Chuck Ivester Piper M600 Ogden UT
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian Posted: 18 Mar 2023, 17:18 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 10/31/18 Posts: 4 Company: Semiplane
Aircraft: Bonanza 35
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Thanks Grant.
This thread talks about running the legacy citation engines well past TBO with just HSIs. Is that commonplace or possible on part 91 for the The PT 46 in a meridian? Not sure how commonplace, but yes it is legal. You can even put the engine on the MOR program which is an STC that monitors the health of the engine with some additional inspections. After 3600 hours, a PT6 is barely broken in, but there are some parts that need to be monitored.
For Part 91 flying, there is nothing to prevent you from flying past TBO, even if you do not purchase the MORE STC. The STC is required to extend TBO for 135 operations.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian Posted: 18 Mar 2023, 17:32 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 11/30/12 Posts: 4006 Post Likes: +4411 Location: Santa Fe, NM (KSAF)
Aircraft: B200, 500B
|
|
Username Protected wrote: The reason the Meridian is GW limited is not performance, but it is due to the stall speed. Being a single engine it has to stall at or below 61 KCAS at GW and most adverse CG. The GW increase among other things adds VG's across the wing and under the elevator. This decreases stall speed. That is how you end up with a max weight of exactly 5092 after the GW increase. This is the weight at which it stalls at 61 KCAS in most adverse CG. The plane still climbs 1500 fpm at GW, so plenty of performance. TBM got around this by improving the crash survivability of the passenger seats. They're tested to 20g, which means the later TBMs are allowed to stall as fast as 65 kts.
_________________ Be Nice
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian Posted: 18 Mar 2023, 17:57 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 08/16/15 Posts: 2895 Post Likes: +3603 Location: Ogden UT
Aircraft: Piper M600
|
|
Username Protected wrote: The reason the Meridian is GW limited is not performance, but it is due to the stall speed. Being a single engine it has to stall at or below 61 KCAS at GW and most adverse CG. The GW increase among other things adds VG's across the wing and under the elevator. This decreases stall speed. That is how you end up with a max weight of exactly 5092 after the GW increase. This is the weight at which it stalls at 61 KCAS in most adverse CG. The plane still climbs 1500 fpm at GW, so plenty of performance. TBM got around this by improving the crash survivability of the passenger seats. They're tested to 20g, which means the later TBMs are allowed to stall as fast as 65 kts.
That is another way to certify the single engine stall speed. I think the PC12 has a similar exemption.
_________________ Chuck Ivester Piper M600 Ogden UT
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian Posted: 19 Mar 2023, 07:11 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 01/26/09 Posts: 2908 Post Likes: +968 Company: SkewTLogPro Location: Tampa, FL (KVDF)
Aircraft: 1984 Bonanza A36TN
|
|
Username Protected wrote: I added rough range, load and duration plus fuel burn from ForeFlight profiles. What I should do is add Bonanza and Baron profiles to this chart just for proper step comparison. The reserves are conservative. Happy hunting. This is a great chart. Should all of the ZFW markers be at 0 miles range?
_________________ Friends don't let friends fly commercial.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian Posted: 19 Mar 2023, 07:57 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 12/18/12 Posts: 787 Post Likes: +399 Location: Europe
Aircraft: Aerostar 600A
|
|
Username Protected wrote: You have to be emotionally compatible with paying a lot for fuel in lieu of ...
Mike C. Now that is a real pearl and sooooo true ! CAPex Vs OPex, finding the balance that fits is the key here.
_________________ A&P/IA P35 Aerostar 600A
|
|
Top |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot post attachments in this forum
|
Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us
BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a
forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include
the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner,
Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.
BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates.
Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.
Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2024
|
|
|
|