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18 Apr 2024, 20:28 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian
PostPosted: 18 Mar 2023, 00:13 
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Username Protected wrote:
If I was in the market, I would absolutely NOT buy a PA46T.

If you want low opex, but don't mind the capex, go for it. It is very nice design overall.

Quote:
If you are gonna make the jump to turbine, go to the Citation. 501SP is good, but rare. 560 seems to be the sweet spot.

501 is not that rare, makes a very good first jet. 560 is too expensive now, plus comes with SPE requirements that block first time turbine pilots.

If you can get SPE, then an S550 makes a pretty good "560 light" jet. TKS is a little weird, and it is kind of whimpy on performance, but much better than a 501 in terms of speed and range.

Quote:
But…if you are gonna make the jump, just go to jet.

You have to be emotionally compatible with paying a lot for fuel in lieu of the invisible money you would be losing on the high hull value of another choice. If you can't make that work, then a jet is not for you.

If you can do it, it is awesome and it will be hard to go back to anything else. Your own personal airliner, safe, fast, and comfortable.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian
PostPosted: 18 Mar 2023, 04:28 
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With my goal to fly the family around all summer and see all 4 corners of the country, I'd like to do it in style and comfort, in the flight levels and in air conditioned pressurized comfort. I'd like the reliability of at least one turbine and think the meridian makes a lot of sense for us. Is it a good choice or are there better options?

Jason, I think you’re on point with a Meridian based on your current mission. Saddle up for the capex, training, insurance and mtnc for a year then flip the aircraft or not. The turbine time and flight level experience will help with the next step. There is a great market for single engine turbine in the price point. TBM is the next price point due to capex and parts costs. As Chip wrote a paper on TBM vs Mustang.
The C501 is a great platform once you have the turbine time, type rating and the insurance plan.
But for stepping up from an A36… the size of the step is what most are speaking of based on hind sight. There is no doubt that a jet is simpler to manage in an engine out than a piston. It starts with six levers to interface with vs 2. The Meridian is a great next step to fly something Jet A SP soon. You can always do the multi-engine piston, multi-engine turbine then multi-engine jet. Yes there is comfort in dual engines. I have not piloted a single engine anything since 2005. But somewhere I read that the odds of a single engine turbine having a specific power plant failure (not fueling or pilot error) is the same odds as a multi engine piston having a simultaneous dual engine failure (which as far as I know has only happened with a fueling issue).
I am not sure how much dual insurance and your own personal minimums will require transitioning from piston to SETP but it will be less that multi engine jet.
With your current age and stage of family the Meridian should work fine. As they grow so will the turbine time and the next step to something dual engine.
Seeing is believing. A demo flight in a Meridian would be great for your wife. Even just getting into the plane is a different experience than an bonanza with an air stair vs climbing onto the wing.
The panel of the Meridian you showed looks cleaner that a legacy steam panel. My wife said the panel of the Mustang made her more at ease than the panel of the Baron with Aspens and GNS530s or C501 with GTN 750s. She knows the C501 was just as safe as the C510, but in a pinch she felt more comfortable bringing the C510 back to terra firma.
The only thing I have reservations about are the Meggit engine gauges. I am ignorant of the replacement options. But there are options based on other panels.
I added rough range, load and duration plus fuel burn from ForeFlight profiles. What I should do is add Bonanza and Baron profiles to this chart just for proper step comparison. The reserves are conservative.
Happy hunting.


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 Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian
PostPosted: 18 Mar 2023, 06:27 
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Username Protected wrote:
The only thing I have reservations about are the Meggit engine gauges. I am ignorant of the replacement options.


The Garmin G500TXi with EIS can replace the Meggit gauges.


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 Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian
PostPosted: 18 Mar 2023, 12:36 
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Thanks Terry. That sounds like a clean alternative.


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 Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian
PostPosted: 18 Mar 2023, 16:46 
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Joined: 10/23/19
Posts: 18
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Location: 18AZ
Aircraft: 2001 Piper Meridian
Quote:
Yes, the insurance cost will shock you

For $900K hull, what are typical insurance premiums?

Great question and I have the exact answer. Mine is $900K value, I'm a 650 hour Commercial, IFR, Single rated pilot on my second year in the Meridian. Transitioned to it from a Cirrus at around 450 hours. First year policy was $19K, renewal went down to $17K, which I was told I should be thankful for and bind the policy, which I did.

Who wouldn't want to fly a jet? But in today's world for me at 650 hours, a 510 or CJ/CJ1, Insurance $ is currently my deal breaker. Once I get to 1000 hours +, I'll reevaluate. I flew in a 501SP, it was cool, but wasn't screaming my name even at a $400K purchase price. Additionally, I fly out of a 4000x50' strip with a slope and no instrument approaches. Hopefully in the next two years my name comes up on the Deer Valley airport hanger list and then, legal takeoff distances aren't a problem in the AZ heat.

Thanks,
Patrick


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 Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian
PostPosted: 18 Mar 2023, 16:48 
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Joined: 10/23/19
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Location: 18AZ
Aircraft: 2001 Piper Meridian
Username Protected wrote:
The only thing I have reservations about are the Meggit engine gauges. I am ignorant of the replacement options.


The Garmin G500TXi with EIS can replace the Meggit gauges.


Correct. Full Garmin suite with EIS will remove the Meggitt DAU and eliminate all Meggit concerns for.

As for the older Meggit parts, I sold all of mine in a matter of days to others that needed spares or were AOG looking for a part. Support is basically non-existent from what I understand.

Thanks,
Patrick

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 Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian
PostPosted: 18 Mar 2023, 16:55 
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Username Protected wrote:
Thanks Grant.

This thread talks about running the legacy citation engines well past TBO with just HSIs. Is that commonplace or possible on part 91 for the The PT 46 in a meridian?


Not sure how commonplace, but yes it is legal. You can even put the engine on the MOR program which is an STC that monitors the health of the engine with some additional inspections. After 3600 hours, a PT6 is barely broken in, but there are some parts that need to be monitored.

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 Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian
PostPosted: 18 Mar 2023, 17:00 
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Username Protected wrote:
Our 2001 also does NOT have the GWI and while I wish it did, its not worth the $80K for me today.

Wow, you'd think that STC was for a jet at that price.

Is the STC just paperwork? No actual change to the airplane? Just changing some numbers?

Wink, wink, say no more.

Mike C.


The reason the Meridian is GW limited is not performance, but it is due to the stall speed. Being a single engine it has to stall at or below 61 KCAS at GW and most adverse CG. The GW increase among other things adds VG's across the wing and under the elevator. This decreases stall speed. That is how you end up with a max weight of exactly 5092 after the GW increase. This is the weight at which it stalls at 61 KCAS in most adverse CG. The plane still climbs 1500 fpm at GW, so plenty of performance.
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 Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian
PostPosted: 18 Mar 2023, 17:15 
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I think range payload graphs are extremely useful. My only comment on the Meridian graph is it needs to be shifted upwards about 100 pounds all the way across. ZFW should be around 1400 lbs for an early Meridian and full fuel payload should be between 500 and 600 lbs depending on options. Even my recent M500 fully optioned was 1376 ZFW and 519 lbs full fuel. Even more than that, since it takes a little work to get the advertised 1140 lbs of fuel in a Meridian. A typical fill will run around 1080 lbs if you leave it to the line guys that will leave a little room.

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 Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian
PostPosted: 18 Mar 2023, 17:18 
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Aircraft: Bonanza 35
Username Protected wrote:
Thanks Grant.

This thread talks about running the legacy citation engines well past TBO with just HSIs. Is that commonplace or possible on part 91 for the The PT 46 in a meridian?


Not sure how commonplace, but yes it is legal. You can even put the engine on the MOR program which is an STC that monitors the health of the engine with some additional inspections. After 3600 hours, a PT6 is barely broken in, but there are some parts that need to be monitored.



For Part 91 flying, there is nothing to prevent you from flying past TBO, even if you do not purchase the MORE STC. The STC is required to extend TBO for 135 operations.

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 Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian
PostPosted: 18 Mar 2023, 17:32 
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Username Protected wrote:
The reason the Meridian is GW limited is not performance, but it is due to the stall speed. Being a single engine it has to stall at or below 61 KCAS at GW and most adverse CG. The GW increase among other things adds VG's across the wing and under the elevator. This decreases stall speed. That is how you end up with a max weight of exactly 5092 after the GW increase. This is the weight at which it stalls at 61 KCAS in most adverse CG. The plane still climbs 1500 fpm at GW, so plenty of performance.

TBM got around this by improving the crash survivability of the passenger seats. They're tested to 20g, which means the later TBMs are allowed to stall as fast as 65 kts.

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 Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian
PostPosted: 18 Mar 2023, 17:57 
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Username Protected wrote:
The reason the Meridian is GW limited is not performance, but it is due to the stall speed. Being a single engine it has to stall at or below 61 KCAS at GW and most adverse CG. The GW increase among other things adds VG's across the wing and under the elevator. This decreases stall speed. That is how you end up with a max weight of exactly 5092 after the GW increase. This is the weight at which it stalls at 61 KCAS in most adverse CG. The plane still climbs 1500 fpm at GW, so plenty of performance.

TBM got around this by improving the crash survivability of the passenger seats. They're tested to 20g, which means the later TBMs are allowed to stall as fast as 65 kts.


That is another way to certify the single engine stall speed. I think the PC12 has a similar exemption.
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 Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian
PostPosted: 19 Mar 2023, 00:43 
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Just fly it first. I loved it on paper. In the plane the bottom sharp edge of that big metal panel rests at the top of my shins just beneath the kneecap. In turbulence it was like being disciplined in a Russian prison. Headset resting on the ceiling too... I could make an in ear set work maybe, although that's not my preference. I am 6'4" tho... if you're a midget you'll be ok.


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 Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian
PostPosted: 19 Mar 2023, 07:11 
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Username Protected wrote:
I added rough range, load and duration plus fuel burn from ForeFlight profiles. What I should do is add Bonanza and Baron profiles to this chart just for proper step comparison. The reserves are conservative.
Happy hunting.


This is a great chart. Should all of the ZFW markers be at 0 miles range?

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 Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian
PostPosted: 19 Mar 2023, 07:57 
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You have to be emotionally compatible with paying a lot for fuel in lieu of ...

Mike C.


Now that is a real pearl and sooooo true !

CAPex Vs OPex, finding the balance that fits is the key here.

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