Probably many millions more engine flight hours in the KA fleet though

Pop quiz:

You have your choice of PC-12 or King Air 250 (guessing those are roughly mission and age comparable).

You are told there WILL be an engine failure on this flight.

Which airplane do you choose and why?

For me, its no contest, taking the twin. I would feel even better in something other than a King Air, however.


Yes, something is wrong with King Airs.

We have a whole spate of accidents that are almost identical. The plane rotates, barely gets airborne, engine fails, and they crash usually inside the airport boundary or very close to it, usually with gear still out.

Here is how far away they got from start of takeoff to crash site for these recent accidents:

2011 Long Beach, CA - 3500 ft

2014 Wichita, KS - 5800 ft (from E3 intersection, where takeoff started)

2017 Melbourne, Aus - 5100 ft

2018 Tucson, AZ - 4400 ft

2019 Oahu, HI - TBD (need more data, was on airport property, so 3000 to 5000 ft)

2019 Addison, TX - 4900 ft

2020 Rockford, IL - About 4500 ft

I find it unbelievable that these accidents are so similar and ended up with such a narrow distribution of impact sites relative to start of takeoff roll. The odds that this is random are extremely low.

Something's wrong here, so the King Air numbers a skewed because of this.

Meanwhile, other turboprop twins are not having nearly the same issue and it is hard to find engine failures immediately after liftoff.

Mike C.

Pop quiz:

You have your choice of PC-12 or King Air 250 (guessing those are roughly mission and age comparable).

You are told there WILL be an engine failure on this flight.

Which airplane do you choose and why?

For me, its no contest, taking the twin. I would feel even better in something other than a King Air, however.

I mean, at this point, I’d have to say the single. Seems like people have higher survival (statistically). Engine failure after rotation- definitely the single. Engine failure in cruise, the twin.

And in fact, we are saying that there will be a 1:1,000,000 engine failure.

Indeed too many King Air accidents. But, such a statement --coming from an enthusiastic MU-2 pilot, is surprising.

You could have said the same about the list of MU-2 accidents. Though, you know it wasn't the case.
Then the SFAR and new training requirements appear to have fixed the MU-2 problem.

IMO, globally King Air training is lacking, except at only two training facilities (I attended many, even worked briefly for a major one).

And, pilots need to be in the correct state of mind prior to each flight, and take each takeoff very seriously.

These safety reminders are painted at the gate entrance of a Naval Air Station in South Asia:

You are entering a very DYNAMIC ENVIRONMENT, leave your worries here!
Mobile phones are DISTRACTIONS: NO PHONES & NO DISTRACTIONS on the RAMP!
The best SAFETY DEVICE is between your ears – USE IT!
FLIGHT SAFETY also requires using common sense!
Attitudes are contagious… is yours worth catching?
Make FLIGHT SAFETY an attitude!
Every time a plane takes off, lives are on the line.

Flew in a KA200 for the first time yesterday.

Less vibration than the TPE331 planes, cabin was full, I thought it was rather tight - the sideways couch was not comfortable. Other seats seemed ok.

Ride was better than C441 and PC12, much worse than Mu2 or Piaggio. Noise level was high - I would say the same as every other turboprop - you wanted a headset but were ok without. Talking to person next to you required elevated voice.

Great climb rates, even in teens we had solid 2k per minute.

Large windows made the cabin 'feel' airy, which I liked.

Had the Garmin AP - I was not impressed with yaw damper, tail wagged a lot and I thought it was uncomfortable for pax.

Overall, very nice plane. The 200 cabin seemed a lot smaller than PC12 to me - 350 seems a more apt pc12 comparison.

Pop quiz:

You have your choice of PC-12 or King Air 250 (guessing those are roughly mission and age comparable).

You are told there WILL be an engine failure on this flight.

Which airplane do you choose and why?

For me, its no contest, taking the twin. I would feel even better in something other than a King Air, however.


Yes, something is wrong with King Airs.

We have a whole spate of accidents that are almost identical. The plane rotates, barely gets airborne, engine fails, and they crash usually inside the airport boundary or very close to it, usually with gear still out.

Here is how far away they got from start of takeoff to crash site for these recent accidents:

2011 Long Beach, CA - 3500 ft

2014 Wichita, KS - 5800 ft (from E3 intersection, where takeoff started)

2017 Melbourne, Aus - 5100 ft

2018 Tucson, AZ - 4400 ft

2019 Oahu, HI - TBD (need more data, was on airport property, so 3000 to 5000 ft)

2019 Addison, TX - 4900 ft

2020 Rockford, IL - About 4500 ft

I find it unbelievable that these accidents are so similar and ended up with such a narrow distribution of impact sites relative to start of takeoff roll. The odds that this is random are extremely low.

Something's wrong here, so the King Air numbers a skewed because of this.

Meanwhile, other turboprop twins are not having nearly the same issue and it is hard to find engine failures immediately after liftoff.

Mike C.

Pop quiz:

You have your choice of PC-12 or King Air 250 (guessing those are roughly mission and age comparable).

You are told there WILL be an engine failure on this flight.

Which airplane do you choose and why?

For me, its no contest, taking the twin. I would feel even better in something other than a King Air, however.


Yes, something is wrong with King Airs.

We have a whole spate of accidents that are almost identical. The plane rotates, barely gets airborne, engine fails, and they crash usually inside the airport boundary or very close to it, usually with gear still out.

Here is how far away they got from start of takeoff to crash site for these recent accidents:

2011 Long Beach, CA - 3500 ft

2014 Wichita, KS - 5800 ft (from E3 intersection, where takeoff started)

2017 Melbourne, Aus - 5100 ft

2018 Tucson, AZ - 4400 ft

2019 Oahu, HI - TBD (need more data, was on airport property, so 3000 to 5000 ft)

2019 Addison, TX - 4900 ft

2020 Rockford, IL - About 4500 ft

I find it unbelievable that these accidents are so similar and ended up with such a narrow distribution of impact sites relative to start of takeoff roll. The odds that this is random are extremely low.

Something's wrong here, so the King Air numbers a skewed because of this.

Meanwhile, other turboprop twins are not having nearly the same issue and it is hard to find engine failures immediately after liftoff.

Mike C.

I don’t know where I heard it or seen it . I thought the VMC rollovers in the King Airs ,not so much an engine out as much as an over speed on one of the engines . No facts to back this up .

No. As far as I know there are no documented failures of all 3 governors. Or even the first 2.

I wonder if the guys who used to fly 4-8 engine planes with a co pilot and flight engineer and ended up going to a twin thought the same thing?

As time goes on it seems like we go from “don’t be a idiot” to “don’t take undue risks” go “risk adverse” to a “fear culture”

And lots of the folks who are worried about minute possibilities often ignore the bigger risks too, it’s all very strange

The PC-12 cabin has similar space compared to the 350 and is larger than the Citations CJ4 and smaller, Phenom 300, and KA 200.

The large door and seat flexibility offer versatility for various missions, and the PC-12 is capable of carrying items like a dolphin, lions, dirt bike, or Air Cam airplane (I lost that picture).

Congrats on the great choice, John, and hope you can attend the POPA convention in June.

The PC-12 cabin has similar space compared to the 350 and is larger than the Citations CJ4 and smaller, Phenom 300, and KA 200.

The large door and seat flexibility offer versatility for various missions, and the PC-12 is capable of carrying items like a dolphin, lions, dirt bike, or Air Cam airplane (I lost that picture).

Congrats on the great choice, John, and hope you can attend the POPA convention in June.

Wow. Not sure getting the load in the door is the biggest concern I'd have about that flight...

Wow. Not sure getting the load in the door is the biggest concern I'd have about that flight...