18 Apr 2024, 09:28 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Grass strips... Navajo or Baron... Educate me Posted: 28 Jan 2023, 10:03 |
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Joined: 07/09/09 Posts: 266 Post Likes: +153 Company: Bergland + Cram Architects Location: Clear Lake, Iowa
Aircraft: PA-18-95, Gullwing
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Username Protected wrote: A Commander is worth finding a bigger hangar. Aspect ratio is a wonderful thing. Haha… love this way of thinking, but we just built the hangar a couple of years ago. Its 64x88 but only 14’ ceilings. It’s in our backyard so not easy to “find a bigger one”….. and don’t say build another because we’ve already built a second one last year for cold storage to keep the ‘stuff’ out of the hangar that started showing up after we built it. The second is 64’x96’ but also only has 14’ ceiling's. Love the idea of a commander but it just doesn’t fit under a 14’ ceiling.
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Post subject: Re: Grass strips... Navajo or Baron... Educate me Posted: 28 Jan 2023, 12:52 |
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Joined: 05/14/19 Posts: 676 Post Likes: +584 Location: MCW
Aircraft: 7ECA
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Username Protected wrote: You don't HAVE to build another barn/hangar, just modify the doors........... For every problem there is a solution.
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Post subject: Re: Grass strips... Navajo or Baron... Educate me Posted: 28 Jan 2023, 14:06 |
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Joined: 11/30/17 Posts: 1287 Post Likes: +1460 Location: KARR
Aircraft: J3, Twin Commander
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Username Protected wrote: …and our hangar isn’t tall enough for a 500 commander so don’t go there!
In the spirit that we have all taken this as a challenge - Just over a foot of lift on the nose gives you about a foot and a half drop on the tail.
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Post subject: Re: Grass strips... Navajo or Baron... Educate me Posted: 28 Jan 2023, 14:24 |
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Joined: 03/17/08 Posts: 6062 Post Likes: +12469 Location: KMCW
Aircraft: B55 PII,F-1,L-2,OTW,
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Andy,
The east end of your strip is not really usable for a twin landing to the west. Takeoffs west would be fine, but I would be hesitant to land my Baron on your strip westbound.
Also, you would have to commit to jumping over to MCW to pickup your pax. Leaving loaded out of your strip would be a bad idea in any of the airplanes mentioned.
And, as we have discussed, you need to commit to flying it regularly.
Finally, snow in winter and mud in the spring would necessitate a hangar at MCW anyway.
Finally, regarding when I took off from the 500 ft strip at your parents farm, you neglected to mention that I had a 30kt headwind and an additional 1/2 mile of freshly planted cornfield with a smooth transistion (I walked it) that I could have used if I needed it. It is an impressive video, but it was neither difficult or dangerous. I did not use flaps and rotated at Vyse+5. Had I used flaps and rotated early I would have been airborne in half the distance. Also impressive, but not smart.
_________________ Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal MCW Be Nice, Kind, I don't care, be something, just don't be a jerk ;-)
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Post subject: Re: Grass strips... Navajo or Baron... Educate me Posted: 28 Jan 2023, 14:47 |
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Joined: 12/30/15 Posts: 1702 Post Likes: +1727 Location: Charlotte
Aircraft: Avanti-Citabria
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Username Protected wrote: Andy,
Finally, regarding when I took off from the 500 ft strip at your parents farm, you neglected to mention that I had a 30kt headwind and an additional 1/2 mile of freshly planted cornfield with a smooth transistion (I walked it) that I could have used if I needed it. It is an impressive video, but it was neither difficult or dangerous. I did not use flaps and rotated at Vyse+5. Had I used flaps and rotated early I would have been airborne in half the distance. Also impressive, but not smart. And here Doug is again confusing legend with facts
_________________ I wanna go phastR.....and slowR
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Post subject: Re: Grass strips... Navajo or Baron... Educate me Posted: 28 Jan 2023, 15:10 |
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Joined: 09/11/09 Posts: 5286 Post Likes: +4199 Company: Looking Location: Tulsa, Ok
Aircraft: Baron/Bonanza
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Username Protected wrote: …and our hangar isn’t tall enough for a 500 commander so don’t go there!
In the spirit that we have all taken this as a challenge - Just over a foot of lift on the nose gives you about a foot and a half drop on the tail.
When I worked at Wiley Post, KPWA, we had a ramp that we used to drop Commander tails under a shorter door like that. Clear space inside the door was plenty tall, we just had to get it through.
_________________ I don't have a problem with anger, I have a problem with idiots.
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Post subject: Re: Grass strips... Navajo or Baron... Educate me Posted: 28 Jan 2023, 17:31 |
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Joined: 08/25/14 Posts: 389 Post Likes: +142 Location: Kindred ND (K74)
Aircraft: 1974 B55, 1979 M20K
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Username Protected wrote: Would love a 500 but our ceiling is only 14’….so it will not work… not interested in engineering a nose wheel lift to keep the tail under the ceiling and door height. It will inevitably fail at some point (most likely due to kids playing inside or beating on something) and then I’ll have a new attic access…and an expensive one at that.
From the advice received so far, it is sounding like I may need to continue my hunt for a 337 or O2…. Or plan for leaving our strip directionally and loading at airport if continuing my pursuit of a larger twin… You could always cut the attic access before it creates itself...just saying, it's been done before. Doug knows who I'm talking about.
_________________ Odegaard Aviation LLC Aircraft Restoration & Repair
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Post subject: Re: Grass strips... Navajo or Baron... Educate me Posted: 28 Jan 2023, 18:43 |
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Joined: 11/30/12 Posts: 4006 Post Likes: +4411 Location: Santa Fe, NM (KSAF)
Aircraft: B200, 500B
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Username Protected wrote: From the advice received so far, it is sounding like I may need to continue my hunt for a 337 or O2…. Or plan for leaving our strip directionally and loading at airport if continuing my pursuit of a larger twin… I would not get a 337 without a solid evaluation vs an Aztec or other short field 1960's twin. When you're travelling with 5 people, it has no baggage space and very little shoulder room. It gets off the ground quickly, but at the expense of climb rate. The wing on an RSTOL 337 after a short field takeoff is at such a high angle of attack that the drag is enormous, and acceleration is abysmal. It requires good pilot technique to clear the trees faster than a regular 337. Landing it can be really entertaining, but your forward visibility goes to zero in the flare as the nose comes up higher than anything else you've flown. It also has smaller tires than any other plane mentioned in this thread. It's fine on grass but doesn't handle lumpy & bumpy well.
_________________ Be Nice
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Post subject: Re: Grass strips... Navajo or Baron... Educate me Posted: 29 Jan 2023, 08:04 |
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Joined: 12/16/09 Posts: 364 Post Likes: +157 Location: Snohomish, WA
Aircraft: PA-27 Turbo
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Don't underestimate an Aztec...and it doesn't need to come from the 60's.
From my chair it fits your mission perfectly.
Every time I've considered something different than my turbo F model i always come back to it as best bang for the buck hands down. My two kids traveled everywhere in ours from elementary school through college. These days it's mostly flown for weekend golf junkets...4 adults, golf bags, suitcases, groceries, case(s) of wine and it still has more than enough room.
We have a sea level 2700' asphalt strip nearby that has a parallel 2600' of grass. Easy.
Mark
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Post subject: Re: Grass strips... Navajo or Baron... Educate me Posted: 29 Jan 2023, 10:38 |
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Joined: 12/12/07 Posts: 7784 Post Likes: +3111 Location: Dallas, TX (KADS)
Aircraft: 1969 Bonanza V35A
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Username Protected wrote: Don't underestimate an Aztec...and it doesn't need to come from the 60's. ... Mark Nothing to add to the conversation, other than... ...my gosh, that is a beautiful Aztec! --- Carry on.
_________________ PP, ASEL, Instrument Airplane, A&P Texas Construction Law: http://www.TexasConstructionLaw.com
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Post subject: Re: Grass strips... Navajo or Baron... Educate me Posted: 29 Jan 2023, 11:05 |
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Joined: 03/17/08 Posts: 6062 Post Likes: +12469 Location: KMCW
Aircraft: B55 PII,F-1,L-2,OTW,
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Andy,
The Aztec is really the best choice.
Easy to fly, more cabin volume than a Skymaster, and faster too.
Doug
_________________ Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal MCW Be Nice, Kind, I don't care, be something, just don't be a jerk ;-)
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