banner
banner

18 Apr 2024, 13:30 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Aviation Fabricators (Top Banner)



Reply to topic  [ 67 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: Re: Grass strips... Navajo or Baron... Educate me
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2023, 10:08 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 11/24/11
Posts: 500
Post Likes: +555
Aircraft: PA31, PA32R
Username Protected wrote:
Also…I may have been micronapping but didn’t he say he didn’t have the space for a commander?


Only about 15 times, but BT wants him to get one anyway. :deadhorse: :shrug:


Top

 Post subject: Re: Grass strips... Navajo or Baron... Educate me
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2023, 11:32 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 05/14/19
Posts: 676
Post Likes: +584
Location: MCW
Aircraft: 7ECA
Andy,

Get the plane you want, rent a hangar at your nearby airport. I hear they may be building some this summer. ;)


Top

 Post subject: Re: Grass strips... Navajo or Baron... Educate me
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2023, 11:38 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 01/23/13
Posts: 8069
Post Likes: +5760
Company: Kokotele Guitar Works
Location: Albany, NY
Aircraft: C-182RG, C-172, PA28
If a 337 truly is a consideration, check out https://www.cessna-pilots.net/. It's a smaller community than BT, but lots of info.

One downside I can see to a 337 is that it's a relatively small fleet compared to other makes, so there are less airframes to choose from and many of them have not been babied or refurbed to the same extent as, say, the Baron fleet.

They fill a niche that nothing else seems to. Can fit in regular hangars, can get off of grass strips, speed on par with other light twins, roomy cabin for 4 with space for your stuff, decent useful load... high wing so the passengers can see the scenery (this is apparently a significant issue for my girlfriend)...

I wish it had 2 doors and/or a baggage door. Getting all your stuff into the back seems like a pain.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Grass strips... Navajo or Baron... Educate me
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2023, 15:45 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 11/30/12
Posts: 4006
Post Likes: +4411
Location: Santa Fe, NM (KSAF)
Aircraft: B200, 500B
Username Protected wrote:
If a 337 truly is a consideration, check out https://www.cessna-pilots.net/. It's a smaller community than BT, but lots of info.

One downside I can see to a 337 is that it's a relatively small fleet compared to other makes, so there are less airframes to choose from and many of them have not been babied or refurbed to the same extent as, say, the Baron fleet.

They fill a niche that nothing else seems to. Can fit in regular hangars, can get off of grass strips, speed on par with other light twins, roomy cabin for 4 with space for your stuff, decent useful load... high wing so the passengers can see the scenery (this is apparently a significant issue for my girlfriend)...

I wish it had 2 doors and/or a baggage door. Getting all your stuff into the back seems like a pain.


There were about 3,000 337s made. Fewer than Barons or Aztecs, but more than Twin Commanders and Twin Bos.

There's not as much Skymaster traffic on the Cessna board as there is on the Skymaster board. http://www.337skymaster.com/messages/index.php

I wouldn't call it a "roomy" cabin for 4. The non-pressurized versions do have a baggage door, but it's small. There's an STC to add a baggage door to the P337s if you wish. My 206 had much more space, both in width and length. Our long trip with 4 people only worked because we were close friends. Useful load ls not spectacular (1400 lbs.)

Basically, it's a true light twin (210 or 225 hp engines) and everything else being mentioned is larger (250 to 300 hp engines.)

Just to be clear, I've owned a 337 and currently own a Commander, and I think the answer to Andy's question is "Aztec."

_________________
Be Nice


Top

 Post subject: Re: Grass strips... Navajo or Baron... Educate me
PostPosted: 01 Feb 2023, 01:21 
Online


 Profile




Joined: 03/31/18
Posts: 283
Post Likes: +314
Aircraft: 1959 D50B
I’m just going to drop another vote for the Twin Bonanza. It’s a load hauling, short field monster. I’ve come out of a sopping wet grass strip with my family of four, bags for 4 days and 80 gallons of gas and broke ground in 1100 feet. Better condition give better results. There’s a West Coast owner who takes his into the short mountain strips with 185’s and Maules. There’s another owner who has departed his snow covered grass strip with all kinds of room to spare. It was literally designed to do what you want to do. Want even more wiggle room? Add VG’s. We had a coupe Chieftains at our outfit when I was a young man flying in SE Alaska. They would haul a load. But the TBone will too and it’ll beat the Navajo off the ground every time (I can’t speak to the 310/325 though). Go waste an evening digging through the Twin Bonanza sub forum, it will be enlightening.

Now to answer your question directly, I’d vote Barron. But I’d keep an eye out for the P2. My wife would never “downsize” after owning a TBone but if I had to choose another twin that fits in your hangar it would hands down be a P2.

_________________
Cheers,

Mark


Top

 Post subject: Re: Grass strips... Navajo or Baron... Educate me
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2023, 10:06 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 04/02/16
Posts: 97
Post Likes: +95
Location: Rehoboth Beach, Delaware DE25 & Rangeley, Maine 8B0
Aircraft: Navajo, T-Craft
Hi Andy,
I just stumbled on this thread. I have a Navajo 310C with the Panther conversion so 350HP a side. I fly from three different farm grass strips and keep her at DE25, a fly in community which is 2500' of grass with a 500' foot displaced threshold at each end. The three farm strips are 2500', 2800' and 2900'. The Navajo does very well on grass. Big tires and with the 4 bladed Panther conversion props, there is a lot of clearance. My family of 6 didn't fit in a Baron and we outgrew our Saratoga. The potty seat is great for my wife and daughters and the big cabin with airstair door is great for bags and angel flights.
I specifically chose a 310C since they are the lightest and least amount of drag, knowing I would be operating from short, grass strips. The Panther conversion was a bonus. This is the Navajo Jesse Johnson had and posted quite a bit about in 2017.
I fly LOP for all flights, generally 33MP and 2200 RPM, around 15.5 GPH per side, which averages 175 knots true when heavy and 180+ when mid weights or less. That increases with altitude, although most flights are 8-10K unless weather or tailwind pushes us higher. It has been very reliable and annuals have been relatively trouble free. I went back and forth between Cessna 340/421 with RSTOL and the Navajo. I was still on the fence when this Navajo came up for sale. Based on Jesse's extensive blog and Gary White's input, who owned it after Jesse, I went with the Navajo.
Insurance the first three years was $7000, just because it was based at a grass field. This year that dropped to $6000. No explanation but I'll take it. The plane is hangared at all the grass strips.
PM me if you want to discuss further. With clear approaches and light weights, it can be safely operated from shorter strips than I am using.
Good luck.


Last edited on 26 Feb 2023, 09:49, edited 1 time in total.

Top

 Post subject: Re: Grass strips... Navajo or Baron... Educate me
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2023, 10:17 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 04/02/16
Posts: 97
Post Likes: +95
Location: Rehoboth Beach, Delaware DE25 & Rangeley, Maine 8B0
Aircraft: Navajo, T-Craft
Quote
So educate me on your experience flying Navajo’s or Barons into grass strips. I have read all of the book performance figures. It seems like each would be fine in and out, but I realize these are old airplanes, and my piloting skills vs. original factory test pilots differ, so please share first hand experience of doing so or not. I would also welcome knowledge and realities of operating turbo’s down low on very short hops (less then 30 mins in the air).

I forgot to add that the 310C is very docile and easy to fly. Mine has the Duke flap system, so it has flaps 40. At lighter weights it stalls 65 knots, sometimes a little less. Flaps 25 only adds a knot or two to stall speed mid weight or less. Flights between DE25 and two of my farm strips are only about 25 minutes. I need to stay below Pax Rivers restricted space when active so those flights are usually at 2500' or 3000'. Since I'm not going far, I cruise at 30-31MP and 2200 and 14 to 14.5 GPH, LOP. Yields a true of around 165 knots. My baffling is good and I routinely takeoff and cruise with cowl flaps fully closed. Other than being a retract, it's not much different than my fixed gear Saratoga on a short hop, VFR flight.


Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 67 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5




You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2024

.Foreflight_85x50_color.png.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.concorde.jpg.
.Wentworth_85x100.JPG.
.Wingman 85x50.png.
.wat-85x50.jpg.
.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.avionwealth-85x50.png.
.kingairnation-85x50.png.
.traceaviation-85x150.png.
.Marsh.jpg.
.puremedical-85x200.jpg.
.jetacq-85x50.jpg.
.dbm.jpg.
.daytona.jpg.
.ei-85x150.jpg.
.ssv-85x50-2023-12-17.jpg.
.boomerang-85x50-2023-12-17.png.
.blackhawk-85x100-2019-09-25.jpg.
.one-mile-up-85x100.png.
.Latitude.jpg.
.gallagher_85x50.jpg.
.tat-85x100.png.
.headsetsetc_Small_85x50.jpg.
.jandsaviation-85x50.jpg.
.CiESVer2.jpg.
.kadex-85x50.jpg.
.wilco-85x100.png.
.bpt-85x50-2019-07-27.jpg.
.midwest2.jpg.
.stanmusikame-85x50.jpg.
.lucysaviation-85x50.png.
.chairmanaviation-85x50.jpg.
.aircraftferry-85x50.jpg.
.shortnnumbers-85x100.png.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.sierratrax-85x50.png.
.Rocky-Mountain-Turbine-85x100.jpg.
.blackwell-85x50.png.
.airmart-85x150.png.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.AAI.jpg.
.SCA.jpg.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.
.aeroled-85x50-2022-12-06.jpg.
.camguard.jpg.
.bullardaviation-85x50-2.jpg.
.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.Genesys_85x50.jpg.
.cav-85x50.jpg.
.tempest.jpg.
.avfab-85x50-2018-12-04.png.
.centex-85x50.jpg.
.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.kingairacademy-85x100.png.
.aircraftassociates-85x50.png.
.saint-85x50.jpg.