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 Post subject: Re: Comanche 400 advice
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2023, 14:44 
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Location: Elk City, OK
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1800 hrs of Comanches single and twin, the 400 isn’t just a plane and you figure it out in… you will significantly increase your chances of damaging yourself or the aircraft

How does the 400 fly different than the other Comanche's? I would expect it to be a little heavy on the nose and to require a lot of rudder, but what else is different? Does it have enough power to try to torque roll on a go around? How does the rudder force compare to a later 210? I had a T210L and it took quite a bit of rudder compared to my old 210 or my Baron.

I did just find a friend who has flown one quite a bit, who has agreed to fly with me a little when, and if the plane gets here. I had forgotten about him last night when I first posted.

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 Post subject: Re: Comanche 400 advice
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2023, 16:30 
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When I started flying in the mid 80's there was one in the tiedown area that never moved.
Looked so cool, very muscular with that cowl.
Looked in decent shape cosmetically.
Sat for a few years,
then one day,
poof, gone.


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 Post subject: Re: Comanche 400 advice
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2023, 16:58 
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Bobby,

I'd be glad to answer your questions about the 400. I've provided transition training for a number of new 400 owners, I have about 100 hrs of 400 training experience alone and over 200 hrs of 400 time. I can provide references if you'd like. Love the airplane. I fly one on a regular basis.

Great airplane, but misunderstood by many. Generally loved by those that actually fly them. For $100 hamburgers the economics are eye-watering. For long haul travel, they are remarkably efficient. That was what they were designed for, get up and GO! It's genesis was special project for one of the Piper sons that, you might say, got out of control.

I'd be glad to help.

George

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 Post subject: Re: Comanche 400 advice
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2023, 17:21 
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One thing to note about a 400 is that it isn't actually all that much more performance than a 260B. My 260B was a good 170-175 knot airplane, the 400 will be maybe 10-15 knots faster on a lot more fuel.

If you throttled both planes to a given fuel flow, the 260B was faster.

The reasons behind this are extra weight and extra cooling drag. I don't believe the 400 had cowl flaps (only the 260C had those) and thus the engine cooling was sized for the takeoff and climb regime. Shoving all that air through the engine in cruise does add drag. As it is, the 400 has a reputation for high cylinder temps in climb.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Comanche 400 advice
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2023, 18:38 
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Location: Concord , CA (KCCR)
Aircraft: 1967 Baron B55
50 years ago one of my tenants had 400. He was mad scientist type of mentality.
The 400 was nose heavy and took a lot of finesse to NOT land on the nose wheel.
He put a one way “flap dump”switch on the yoke.

When you started the flare with full flaps you just held the dump switch and got a smooth landing on the mains every time.

He also organized a bunch of 400 owners and went to RayJay for a Turbo STC. I BELIEVE there were originally about 25 of these. When he sold it I came close to buying it but I couldn’t quite afford the fuel.

It was a real hot rod with the Turbo’s and fun to fly.


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 Post subject: Re: Comanche 400 advice
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2023, 18:53 
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Maybe show them the IO-720 $100k overhaul cost. They are great planes and climb like a homesick angel. They are heavier in the nose than the Comanche 250. They are also thirstier. A friend had one and sold it a while back.



Last quote I got a few months ago was 55k for overhaul if the crank and cam were within spec.

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 Post subject: Re: Comanche 400 advice
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2023, 19:03 
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The engine is so long that distribution of cooling air can be a challenge. On my pawnee brave we put some homemade baffle scoops above the space between the 2nd and 3rd rows of cylinders to encourage some air to go through the front cylinders.


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 Post subject: Re: Comanche 400 advice
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2023, 19:06 
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Last quote I got a few months ago was 55k for overhaul if the crank and cam were within spec.

And if they aren't?

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Comanche 400 advice
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2023, 19:15 
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Then it's financially prohibitive.


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 Post subject: Re: Comanche 400 advice
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2023, 19:42 
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Last quote I got a few months ago was 55k for overhaul if the crank and cam were within spec.

And if they aren't?

Mike C.



Cam is ~ $7,000 and crank is ~ $10,000

If you can find them.

I’m currently running 4 IO-720’s. I have a pickled 20 SMOH engine, a spare overhauled case, a spare cam, and a spare crank. The 720 specific stuff is hard to find, everything else is a little easier.

I see parts pop up on barnstormers and eBay from time to time - you have to be proactive for parts, but I’m used to running rare lycomings at this point.
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 Post subject: Re: Comanche 400 advice
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2023, 20:55 
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Props are also unicorns. You are practically forced to an MT. Only 18K and 6-9 month lead time. But they are nice once you get one.

George

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 Post subject: Re: Comanche 400 advice
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2023, 21:14 
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Cam is ~ $7,000 and crank is ~ $10,000

If you can find them.

That doesn't sound like Lycoming new prices.

Sounds like used parts. Guaranteed serviceable or as removed?

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Comanche 400 advice
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2023, 21:41 
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Location: West Long Branch, NJ (KBLM)
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Cam is ~ $7,000 and crank is ~ $10,000

If you can find them.

That doesn't sound like Lycoming new prices.

Sounds like used parts. Guaranteed serviceable or as removed?

Mike C.



I was looking a year ago. Cam was new, crank was overhauled with tags. I haven't checked with Lycoming directly on the lead time for parts.

I hope to be burning Jet-A before I have to overhaul a piston engine.

Back to topic. Comanche 400's are very cool and the IO720 doesn't require any special operating technique. Starting technique is the same as most fuel injected engines. It runs well LOP and is very smooth if plugs, injectors, and timing are all in order.
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 Post subject: Re: Comanche 400 advice
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2023, 23:53 
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As for flying it - just read the POH. Tells you everything you need to know.

As for owning, WHY? It is 185-190 knot plane on 18-21 GPH. A TN V35 will do 200 knots on 17GPH and is much better looking and much better built. Any modern experimental is far better like the Lancair ES with an IO-550 will do 185 knots on 14 GPH.

The old IO-720 has limited parts available and has some cooling issues in the Comanche.

There are much better planes for the $.


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 Post subject: Re: Comanche 400 advice
PostPosted: 23 Jan 2023, 00:29 
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Make sure you know emergency gear extension procedure.

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