18 Apr 2024, 21:17 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: New section about airports, hangars development etc Posted: 06 Dec 2022, 22:32 |
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Joined: 01/25/17 Posts: 188 Post Likes: +152 Location: Savannah, GA (KSAV)
Aircraft: 1959 Bonanza K35
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Username Protected wrote: I just received a quote for a 60x60 hangar sliding door for $260k. Higher than I’d hoped. Lower than I’d feared. Hey Brock, which airport? And was this a price for a completed building (foundation, utilities, etc), or for just the structure?
_________________ Ted Meyer ATP/CFI/II/MEI/ABS BPPP Instructor
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Post subject: Re: New section about airports, hangars development etc Posted: 06 Dec 2022, 22:51 |
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Joined: 11/19/19 Posts: 166 Post Likes: +157 Company: Airline Maintenance Service In Location: KMQY
Aircraft: BE58, G44, C185
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Yes at MQY. Nashville has become so busy that I guess the contractors just don't need the work. When I started I was given a expectation of a about $150/sqft all in. I sent plans out to 10 builders who have hangar experience and only received 3 bids. $1.8M avg for 5700sqft hangar or about $315/sqft. Stunned!
Tried some value engineering but can only get down to about $250/sqft. This is for a plain metal box with a 18ft HP door, small office and bathroom. HVAC in office, heat in hangar.
I had to cancel all bids until either I have more money to throw down the aviation pit or prices come down.
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Post subject: Re: New section about airports, hangars development etc Posted: 06 Dec 2022, 23:05 |
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Joined: 01/25/17 Posts: 188 Post Likes: +152 Location: Savannah, GA (KSAV)
Aircraft: 1959 Bonanza K35
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Wow Cory, that's quite the price hike. Sorry that was your experience, how recently was that and have you followed up lately? I'm fighting some of the same trends here in Savannah, we're in the middle of a local boom with all of the growth at our nearby container port and airport, it's hard to find interested GC's.
I'm heading up a small 6-unit T-hangar co-op, no frills, about 8,000sf with a small finished corner office/restroom with HVAC. We're hoping to come in under $100/sf via a smaller and more standardized structure, hopefully it's doable.
_________________ Ted Meyer ATP/CFI/II/MEI/ABS BPPP Instructor
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Post subject: Re: New section about airports, hangars development etc Posted: 07 Dec 2022, 00:34 |
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Joined: 10/31/11 Posts: 990 Post Likes: +638 Company: B777, 767, 757, 727, MD11, S80 Location: Colorado Springs
Aircraft: Thrush S2R, AC500B,
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Username Protected wrote: Thought I'd add a happy note! Our airport manager was against GA. No one knows why but the board called her in and fired her. The position is now held by a husband/wife team who are both GA pilots. We are now having pilot appreciation days. The whole mood of the place has changed. There are plans to build more hangars, t-hangars and a restaurant! Kindly, Ralph KILM What is your airport identifier?
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Post subject: Re: New section about airports, hangars development etc Posted: 07 Dec 2022, 00:36 |
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Joined: 11/08/12 Posts: 6310 Post Likes: +3803 Location: San Carlos, CA - KHWD
Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
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Username Protected wrote: … Kindly, Ralph KILM What is your airport identifier? I’m going to hazard a guess it’s KILM…
_________________ -Jon C.
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Post subject: Re: New section about airports, hangars development etc Posted: 07 Dec 2022, 01:00 |
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Joined: 06/17/14 Posts: 5003 Post Likes: +1949 Location: KJYO
Aircraft: C-182, GA-7
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Username Protected wrote: I'm fighting some of the same trends here in Savannah, we're in the middle of a local boom with all of the growth at our nearby container port and airport, it's hard to find interested GC's. It had been nearly 14 years since I visited and flew and what was Savannah Aviation in their 182. That was when Steve still owned it but had sold off fueling operations. I remember how hard it was for him to get the T-Hangars built in 1999 but was glad they did! It sure has changed a lot, has had a ton of development, and the growth was insane. What had been a 20 minute drive around the airport was now nearly 50.
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Post subject: Re: New section about airports, hangars development etc Posted: 07 Dec 2022, 01:16 |
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Joined: 05/14/11 Posts: 831 Post Likes: +577
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Username Protected wrote: I just received a quote for a 60x60 hangar sliding door for $260k. Higher than I’d hoped. Lower than I’d feared. I understand your fear!! My goodness, that seems outrageous! A friend of mine just built a nice 70x70 w/ a Schwiess bi-fold door, several other walk-thru doors, a garage door, insulation, lighting and concrete pads outside for $170K. This is @ Bridgeport, TX (KXBP). It's already too small, so he's adding on the end now to put a shop and office area. Don't know what that'll come in at yet. It is a little less expensive per sq. foot the larger you go, but $260K for a basic 60x60 seems ludicrous. You must be in a highly desirable location. I'd give it a year and prices might come down a bit. Q1 '23 Recession, or some softer semblance thereof, looking highly likely. ~ ME
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Post subject: Re: New section about airports, hangars development etc Posted: 07 Dec 2022, 10:05 |
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Joined: 08/14/10 Posts: 161 Post Likes: +28 Location: Austin, TX
Aircraft: Formerly 1982 B36TC
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In April, I received a proposal for a 55x60 hangar at a newly developed grass strip conversion in Salado, TX (2TX), a rural airport. The bid was $241k, which I think excluded the hangar door.
Here is the cost breakdown:
Building 55x60x18: $80,190 (includes reinforcement for future mezzanine 20x55) Erection: $49,500 Slab: $37,950 R30 Roof Insulation: $18,183 Transluscent panels (6 3x10): $1,800 Man door: $4,725 200 Amp Panel: $17,500 Waste & Water Connection: $15,500 Apron Asphalt (20x55): $4,125 Contractor Fee: $11,473
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Post subject: Re: New section about airports, hangars development etc Posted: 07 Dec 2022, 12:10 |
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Joined: 12/10/07 Posts: 30692 Post Likes: +10715 Location: Minneapolis, MN (KFCM)
Aircraft: 1970 Baron B55
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Username Protected wrote: In April, I received a proposal for a 55x60 hangar at a newly developed grass strip conversion in Salado, TX (2TX), a rural airport. The bid was $241k, which I think excluded the hangar door.
Here is the cost breakdown:
Building 55x60x18: $80,190 (includes reinforcement for future mezzanine 20x55) Erection: $49,500 Slab: $37,950 R30 Roof Insulation: $18,183 Transluscent panels (6 3x10): $1,800 Man door: $4,725 200 Amp Panel: $17,500 Waste & Water Connection: $15,500 Apron Asphalt (20x55): $4,125 Contractor Fee: $11,473 Assuming there wasn't a lot of wiring beyond the panel, $17k seems awfully high, but if there are 20 or more circuits, that's more reasonable. But how in the world does a man door cost almost $5000?
_________________ -lance
It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.
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Post subject: Re: New section about airports, hangars development etc Posted: 07 Dec 2022, 12:41 |
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Joined: 08/14/10 Posts: 161 Post Likes: +28 Location: Austin, TX
Aircraft: Formerly 1982 B36TC
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Username Protected wrote: Assuming there wasn't a lot of wiring beyond the panel, $17k seems awfully high, but if there are 20 or more circuits, that's more reasonable. But how in the world does a man door cost almost $5000? Hardly any wiring. Lights, a few outlets, a fan. When I drive around the area (central Texas), I see tons of steel buildings going up for businesses to support a fast growing metro. Perhaps supply of contractors and labor significantly exceeds demand.
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Post subject: Re: New section about airports, hangars development etc Posted: 07 Dec 2022, 17:14 |
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Joined: 05/14/19 Posts: 676 Post Likes: +584 Location: MCW
Aircraft: 7ECA
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On the subject of airports... "City of Hannibal looks to sell regional airport" https://www.wgem.com/2022/12/07/city-ha ... logy-park/Quote: “I think there’s assets at the airport that are underutilized currently, especially from an economic development perspective,” Perhaps I am reading that out of context but when you hear a non-airport person, in this case the local Economic Development Director, saying something along those lines it makes you raise an eyebrow.
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Post subject: Re: New section about airports, hangars development etc Posted: 09 Dec 2022, 16:03 |
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Joined: 01/25/17 Posts: 188 Post Likes: +152 Location: Savannah, GA (KSAV)
Aircraft: 1959 Bonanza K35
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Thought I'd share a little more on the journey we've been on at KSAV.
In light of all of the pressure on our market with the growth in the area, a group of us got together to ask AOPA for advice on how to best deal with our problems. AOPA's advice was to start a local pilot group that can interface directly with our airport sponsor, and follow AOPA's playbook, as AOPA isn't set up to do direct advocacy at a local level with every airport in the system.
In our case, the airport sponsor is a city-appointed commission. As we started working with the commission, they agreed that it would be great to have a better channel of communication between the local pilot/owner group and the commission, as that kind of thing had been in place before but had sort of waned over the years. In our case, local GA is just one among many priorities alongside a thriving and expanding airline terminal, a large OEM, Military, an expanding air-freight footprint, and 2 national chain FBO's, so without representation or a developed relationship with the GA community, decisions just get made by those larger interests without our input.
While we are a little late to the party, as agreements and developments are already underway that will reduce the available hangar capacity at our airport in the near term, we've had a number of positive developments over the past 6mo that we've been developing our organization, and the airport commission is beginning to view local GA access for base tenants as a priority. We're hoping that in the coming year we can continue to build that relationship and increase their understanding of the needs of base tenants at KSAV and start speaking the same language.
If you're at a similar airport that is thriving in all other aspects except for GA like Savannah is, I highly recommend getting organized and carving out some time to meet with your local airport leadership, attend their business meetings, and patiently explain your needs as you develop the relationship.
I've attached our newsletters up to this point as an example.
Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.
_________________ Ted Meyer ATP/CFI/II/MEI/ABS BPPP Instructor
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