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 Post subject: Re: STEC & Garmin Delays
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2023, 22:46 
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Username Protected wrote:

As a customer that pays for each step, it’s frustrating to not be brought into the loop by a shop (watch a cable tension measurement, for instance, or ensuring items are completed in the correct order, per Genesys data), then find out later, over and over again, that basic steps were performed incorrectly.



I'm missing something here. Didn't you agree on a price before the shop installed it? Why would you pay time and materials for them to troubleshoot their own installation issues? And if it's not them, shouldn't they be billing that back to STEC warranty?


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 Post subject: Re: STEC & Garmin Delays
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2023, 23:27 
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Location: HPN/NY
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Username Protected wrote:
Garmin is moving more toward a year now. Ordered a G3X on July 18, 2022, expected to ship on November 22, 2022, then mid-February, now May 15, 2023.


I guess it depends on the Garmin equipment. My order went in around October, for an early Feb install date. Everything has been received, with about a 2 week slippage in the start schedule (the components were about a week late coming in, and the shop has to juggle the schedule a smidge). GFC500/750Txi/G500 (couple of screens), GI275 covers the big stuff.

The G3X must be a different story.

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 Post subject: Re: STEC & Garmin Delays
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2023, 23:51 
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Joined: 01/22/19
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Location: KFXE
A friend had a STEC 3100 installed in his C310. Six months later, it's still not right. Lots of avgas burned, lots of downtime, maybe it will be right this time. And done by a good shop so it's not installer errors. The 3100 seems like it's not ready for prime time just yet. Hope they get it right soon. It's back in the shop again, four days so far.

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A&P/IA/CFI/avionics tech KFXE


Last edited on 09 Feb 2023, 10:57, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: STEC & Garmin Delays
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2023, 23:52 
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Joined: 07/29/12
Posts: 66
Post Likes: +29
Aircraft: GV IV 680 LRJET 690A
Username Protected wrote:
Ryan, awesome! I hope it works great right out of install. What type aircraft?

Commander 690A. Thank you Nick


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 Post subject: Re: STEC & Garmin Delays
PostPosted: 09 Feb 2023, 13:18 
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Joined: 11/16/12
Posts: 1110
Post Likes: +1174
Location: KFWS
Aircraft: E55 IO550s
This is specific for my E55 Baron.
A couple of years ago I "upgraded" from a System 55 to the 3100.
This is interfaced to a G500txi.
From the beginning, the following were noted:
Roll oscillations.
Pitch oscillation.
TOGA pitch insanely high at 15 degrees.
Unusable FD due to how aggressive it would want to correct even minor deviations.

Multiple trips to the installer. No good resolution.
Took the airplane to Mineral Wells. Twice left it there. A couple of other times just went there for checks without leaving it there.
Where are we now:
Roll oscillations still present, but better. Worse in HDG mode, not as bad in Nav mode. Apparently the 1.6 update will make some improvements in that.
Pitch oscillations. Part of it was because I had a leak in the Static system. We fixed that, they are better, but still present. Sometimes it goes into a cycle and it takes a few minutes to get out of it. Annoying, but I can live with it.
Flight Director: we have ascertained that it is the STEC that is driving the aggressive behavior for corrections. Basically, if a 20 ft deviation from the bugged altitude is present and not immediately corrected, it will eventually (as in 1 minute) ask for a 1500ft/min correction. Supposedly, someone is working on it.
TOGA: crazy high pitch up, that then comes down as you accelerate down the rwy, then goes back up. So it is a dynamic weird pitch. Can't really use the function during take off, and for sure can't use it during Go Around - it becomes too confusing. No fix in sight.

As you can see, I really tried to make this AP work. Wasted a lot of gas and time. But I can't recommend it in a Baron tied to a G500txi system.
No, I won't pull it. It works ok for cruise, which is what I need most of the time. I can't justify spending another 50k for a Garmin product.
If I were to do it again, I would have just left the System 55 in...it performed flawlessly. I got fooled by the "digital" features and the new warranty on the servos. Hope this helps anyone looking for AP replacements.


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 Post subject: Re: STEC & Garmin Delays
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2023, 05:33 
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Joined: 10/30/22
Posts: 3
Aircraft: Baron 58
I’ve been anxiously waiting since mid may last year on a 3100 for a C310. That’s 40 weeks and there’s no news when it will actually happen. Then I’m reading about all the issues and problems.. makes me sick to my stomach.


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 Post subject: Re: STEC & Garmin Delays
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2023, 07:58 
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Joined: 04/26/13
Posts: 19753
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Location: Columbus , IN (KBAK)
Aircraft: 1968 Baron D55
Username Protected wrote:
I’ve been anxiously waiting since mid may last year on a 3100 for a C310. That’s 40 weeks and there’s no news when it will actually happen. Then I’m reading about all the issues and problems.. makes me sick to my stomach.

Are there any available on the used market? That would not just get you one, but one that has been installed and tested.

_________________
My last name rhymes with 'geese'.


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 Post subject: Re: STEC & Garmin Delays
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2023, 14:47 
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Joined: 05/17/11
Posts: 1761
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Location: KFRG
Aircraft: 421C
Username Protected wrote:
This is specific for my E55 Baron.
A couple of years ago I "upgraded" from a System 55 to the 3100.
This is interfaced to a G500txi.
From the beginning, the following were noted:
Roll oscillations.
Pitch oscillation.
TOGA pitch insanely high at 15 degrees.
Unusable FD due to how aggressive it would want to correct even minor deviations.

Multiple trips to the installer. No good resolution.
Took the airplane to Mineral Wells. Twice left it there. A couple of other times just went there for checks without leaving it there.
Where are we now:
Roll oscillations still present, but better. Worse in HDG mode, not as bad in Nav mode. Apparently the 1.6 update will make some improvements in that.
Pitch oscillations. Part of it was because I had a leak in the Static system. We fixed that, they are better, but still present. Sometimes it goes into a cycle and it takes a few minutes to get out of it. Annoying, but I can live with it.
Flight Director: we have ascertained that it is the STEC that is driving the aggressive behavior for corrections. Basically, if a 20 ft deviation from the bugged altitude is present and not immediately corrected, it will eventually (as in 1 minute) ask for a 1500ft/min correction. Supposedly, someone is working on it.
TOGA: crazy high pitch up, that then comes down as you accelerate down the rwy, then goes back up. So it is a dynamic weird pitch. Can't really use the function during take off, and for sure can't use it during Go Around - it becomes too confusing. No fix in sight.

As you can see, I really tried to make this AP work. Wasted a lot of gas and time. But I can't recommend it in a Baron tied to a G500txi system.
No, I won't pull it. It works ok for cruise, which is what I need most of the time. I can't justify spending another 50k for a Garmin product.
If I were to do it again, I would have just left the System 55 in...it performed flawlessly. I got fooled by the "digital" features and the new warranty on the servos. Hope this helps anyone looking for AP replacements.


You have more patience that I do. For the money spent on these systems, I think this is totally unacceptable. I would love to know the ratio of happy to pissed off 3100 users.


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 Post subject: Re: STEC & Garmin Delays
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2023, 23:04 
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Joined: 12/10/07
Posts: 30418
Post Likes: +10530
Location: Minneapolis, MN (KFCM)
Aircraft: 1970 Baron B55
Username Protected wrote:
This is specific for my E55 Baron.
A couple of years ago I "upgraded" from a System 55 to the 3100.
This is interfaced to a G500txi.
From the beginning, the following were noted:
Roll oscillations.
Pitch oscillation.
TOGA pitch insanely high at 15 degrees.
Unusable FD due to how aggressive it would want to correct even minor deviations.

Multiple trips to the installer. No good resolution.
Took the airplane to Mineral Wells. Twice left it there. A couple of other times just went there for checks without leaving it there.
Where are we now:
Roll oscillations still present, but better. Worse in HDG mode, not as bad in Nav mode. Apparently the 1.6 update will make some improvements in that.
Pitch oscillations. Part of it was because I had a leak in the Static system. We fixed that, they are better, but still present. Sometimes it goes into a cycle and it takes a few minutes to get out of it. Annoying, but I can live with it.
Flight Director: we have ascertained that it is the STEC that is driving the aggressive behavior for corrections. Basically, if a 20 ft deviation from the bugged altitude is present and not immediately corrected, it will eventually (as in 1 minute) ask for a 1500ft/min correction. Supposedly, someone is working on it.
TOGA: crazy high pitch up, that then comes down as you accelerate down the rwy, then goes back up. So it is a dynamic weird pitch. Can't really use the function during take off, and for sure can't use it during Go Around - it becomes too confusing. No fix in sight.

As you can see, I really tried to make this AP work. Wasted a lot of gas and time. But I can't recommend it in a Baron tied to a G500txi system.
No, I won't pull it. It works ok for cruise, which is what I need most of the time. I can't justify spending another 50k for a Garmin product.
If I were to do it again, I would have just left the System 55 in...it performed flawlessly. I got fooled by the "digital" features and the new warranty on the servos. Hope this helps anyone looking for AP replacements.


You have more patience that I do. For the money spent on these systems, I think this is totally unacceptable. I would love to know the ratio of happy to pissed off 3100 users.

A friend of mine was so unhappy with the 3100 in his Cessna that he had it replaced with a GFC600. Seems to me you have to be pretty disappointed to pay for the installation of two autopilot for the same airplane in one year.
_________________
-lance

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.


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 Post subject: Re: STEC & Garmin Delays
PostPosted: 16 Feb 2023, 04:48 
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Joined: 10/30/22
Posts: 3
Aircraft: Baron 58
Username Protected wrote:
I’ve been anxiously waiting since mid may last year on a 3100 for a C310. That’s 40 weeks and there’s no news when it will actually happen. Then I’m reading about all the issues and problems.. makes me sick to my stomach.

Are there any available on the used market? That would not just get you one, but one that has been installed and tested.


I haven’t found one yet. It be hard to find one model specific.

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 Post subject: Re: STEC & Garmin Delays
PostPosted: 16 Feb 2023, 11:50 
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Joined: 05/11/11
Posts: 150
Post Likes: +181
Company: Technik Packaging Machinery
Location: Atlanta, GA area
Aircraft: Cessna 414
A ratio of happy to unhappy 3100 users will be pretty difficult to get because if you're happy with your system you're probably not posting.
I'm certainly not defending STEC for delays and for buyers whose 3100 aren't working properly , but I am happy with mine in my Cessna 414. After an engine shutdown my 3100 flew the plane smoothly and precisely like it had two normally working engines, including descent, vectoring, a HILPT and an RNAV (LPV) approach. Not sure what more I could ask of it.


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 Post subject: Re: STEC & Garmin Delays
PostPosted: 16 Feb 2023, 12:34 
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Joined: 05/17/11
Posts: 1761
Post Likes: +1084
Location: KFRG
Aircraft: 421C
Username Protected wrote:
A ratio of happy to unhappy 3100 users will be pretty difficult to get because if you're happy with your system you're probably not posting.
I'm certainly not defending STEC for delays and for buyers whose 3100 aren't working properly , but I am happy with mine in my Cessna 414. After an engine shutdown my 3100 flew the plane smoothly and precisely like it had two normally working engines, including descent, vectoring, a HILPT and an RNAV (LPV) approach. Not sure what more I could ask of it.


Thanks Lance. Did the installers get it right the first time or did you deal with issues for a while?

Anthony


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 Post subject: Re: STEC & Garmin Delays
PostPosted: 16 Feb 2023, 12:41 
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Joined: 03/28/17
Posts: 6624
Post Likes: +7925
Location: N. California
Aircraft: C-182
Username Protected wrote:
This is specific for my E55 Baron.
A couple of years ago I "upgraded" from a System 55 to the 3100.
This is interfaced to a G500txi.
From the beginning, the following were noted:
Roll oscillations.
Pitch oscillation.
TOGA pitch insanely high at 15 degrees.
Unusable FD due to how aggressive it would want to correct even minor deviations.

Multiple trips to the installer. No good resolution.
Took the airplane to Mineral Wells. Twice left it there. A couple of other times just went there for checks without leaving it there.
Where are we now:
Roll oscillations still present, but better. Worse in HDG mode, not as bad in Nav mode. Apparently the 1.6 update will make some improvements in that.
Pitch oscillations. Part of it was because I had a leak in the Static system. We fixed that, they are better, but still present. Sometimes it goes into a cycle and it takes a few minutes to get out of it. Annoying, but I can live with it.
Flight Director: we have ascertained that it is the STEC that is driving the aggressive behavior for corrections. Basically, if a 20 ft deviation from the bugged altitude is present and not immediately corrected, it will eventually (as in 1 minute) ask for a 1500ft/min correction. Supposedly, someone is working on it.
TOGA: crazy high pitch up, that then comes down as you accelerate down the rwy, then goes back up. So it is a dynamic weird pitch. Can't really use the function during take off, and for sure can't use it during Go Around - it becomes too confusing. No fix in sight.

As you can see, I really tried to make this AP work. Wasted a lot of gas and time. But I can't recommend it in a Baron tied to a G500txi system.
No, I won't pull it. It works ok for cruise, which is what I need most of the time. I can't justify spending another 50k for a Garmin product.
If I were to do it again, I would have just left the System 55 in...it performed flawlessly. I got fooled by the "digital" features and the new warranty on the servos. Hope this helps anyone looking for AP replacements.


How frustrating. That has the effect of making others gun shy about panel upgrades, or avionics upgrades. My old King Silver Crown package with the KX 155's and STEC 50 is like stepping back in time, but it all works like new.

The next owner of my plane when I sell it can do all the upgrading they want. Even if I could justify upgrading it now, I wouldn't risk the hassles and downtime I read about too much on BT.

For those going through extended down times, check with your insurance company for a pause in coverage and premium payments, making sure it's covered in the shop, if not by the shop's insurance.


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 Post subject: Re: STEC & Garmin Delays
PostPosted: 16 Feb 2023, 14:58 
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Joined: 05/11/11
Posts: 150
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Company: Technik Packaging Machinery
Location: Atlanta, GA area
Aircraft: Cessna 414
Username Protected wrote:
Thanks Lance. Did the installers get it right the first time or did you deal with issues for a while?

Anthony

The installers got it right the first time, but I did have issues with rocking wings. Tried some software fixes that didn't fully solve problem. STEC made me a very good offer to add a yaw damper which fixed the problem immediately. I would not recommend an STEC in a twin Cessna anyway without a yaw damper. Beechcraft products, I don't know.


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 Post subject: Re: STEC & Garmin Delays
PostPosted: 17 Feb 2023, 10:26 
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I don't get what's up with the 3100s that haven't had the kinks worked out.

I can tell you from experience, even first-rate shops can screw up a 3100 installation. I'm still trying to get my install corrected since Aug 2022. But the fault is all on the shop, not S-Tec or the 3100. I do not see any of the pitch or roll problems people have complained about. The shop screwed up my GTN750Txi to 3100 wiring so the enroute VNAV function doesn't operate properly. Plus they failed to install a CWS switch.

Note: my 3100 came with the VNV bezel, updated software, and yaw damper.

Other than the shop's screw-ups, I'm pleased with the 3100. I would have gone with Garmin as it integrates better with my G500Txi panel but I do not have that option because Garmin, in its infinite wisdom, does not offer the STC for my airframe.

Thank you, S-Tec. And thank you, 3100.

Another satisfied 3100 customer


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