banner
banner

28 Mar 2024, 18:36 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Concorde Battery (banner)



Reply to topic  [ 109 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 8  Next
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: Upgrade from Baron
PostPosted: 24 Oct 2022, 20:36 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 02/15/16
Posts: 216
Post Likes: +31
Location: KJBR Arkansas
Aircraft: Baron 58
I have owned and flown a Baron 58 for the past 5 years and have put nearly 700 hours on it, it’s been to Canada, the Bahamas and all over the US. The plane is well sorted out with fairly new engines and other upgrades. The only problem is my kids are bigger and I need more useful load and it’s really tight when 4-5 are on board.

I’m curious about what the potential list of upgrades would be. The king airs aren’t a lot faster and the fuel flows are crazy for the speed, looked at small jets but can’t get insured without lots of problems. I just read the 39 page thread on the twin Cessnas and I like the idea of the 340 STOL but it’s not a lot bigger and faster than a Baron. I’ve heard the 414 and 421s are Maintenance hogs so I’m not sure which way to go.

I need more useful load, I would LIKE more speed and range and don’t want to spend the next year flying with a mentor…

What good options are there? FYI, I’m IFR certified and have over 1000 hours.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Upgrade from Baron
PostPosted: 24 Oct 2022, 20:38 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 08/13/20
Posts: 194
Post Likes: +111
Location: KLOU/KJVY
Easy..... MU2.

-(Former twin piston driver)

_________________
-MU-2
-C501


Top

 Post subject: Re: Upgrade from Baron
PostPosted: 24 Oct 2022, 20:45 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 02/15/16
Posts: 216
Post Likes: +31
Location: KJBR Arkansas
Aircraft: Baron 58
Username Protected wrote:
Easy..... MU2.

-(Former twin piston driver)

Mu2 is on my list, like TBM but prefer 2 engines. What was the transition like? My insurance man told me a king air would require school and not much more


Top

 Post subject: Re: Upgrade from Baron
PostPosted: 24 Oct 2022, 21:39 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 05/27/15
Posts: 164
Post Likes: +24
Location: KBED
Aircraft: MU2 P model
I’m in an MU2 from a 58 Baron as of this year. The transition is basically an unofficial type rating and not easy, but worth every penny and minute. It’s like moving into a SR71.

Unless you have a money tree, it may be the best logical step for your needs. The only problem with the fleet is the autopilot. But according to Santa Claus, Garmin is coming the rescue.

Anyway, call/text with questions. 617 312 2366


Top

 Post subject: Re: Upgrade from Baron
PostPosted: 24 Oct 2022, 21:49 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 07/24/14
Posts: 1754
Post Likes: +2213
Username Protected wrote:
Easy..... MU2.

-(Former twin piston driver)

Mu2 is on my list, like TBM but prefer 2 engines. What was the transition like? My insurance man told me a king air would require school and not much more

I transitioned from a C340A to a Mitsubishi Marquise. It was a big step up for me. At the time I had a couple thousand hours, 4-500 multi and 0 turbine time. Even though it was a big step, I eventually got to a point where I felt very competent and safe. Insurance required 50 hours mentor time, IIRC, which was pretty easy because I had a lot of trips I wanted to fly.

After 50 hours when I got turned loose, I felt competent, but was still very cautious and I started with higher minimums before I got to a point where I felt I could tackle most of the weather the plane could handle. I spoke with other MU2 pilots who said it took 75-100 hours before feeling really comfortable flying it.

It also requires that you keep current. I could be off 30-60 days from flying the 340 and felt comfortable jumping in and going, but I didn't feel that way in the Marquise. If I had been off from flying for a while, I would get an instructor or I would get in and fly a short trip along with several takeoffs and landings to feel comfortable again. Other MU2 pilots I spoke to felt the same way.

It is a great plane and will serve you well if you train to a high level of competency and keep your pilot skills up.
_________________
Jay


Top

 Post subject: Re: Upgrade from Baron
PostPosted: 24 Oct 2022, 21:55 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 04/19/11
Posts: 31
Post Likes: +9
Aircraft: Mu2
Went from B58 to MU2 (short body) a year ago. I wanted more performance and weather capabilities. The Mu2 has far exceeded my expectations. Insurance required 50 hrs of dual and was expensive. It has gone down 10% this year. I will say it took 50-75 hrs before I felt completely comfortable in it. While I miss the Baron for short trips, I have no regrets.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Upgrade from Baron
PostPosted: 24 Oct 2022, 22:10 
Online


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 07/09/09
Posts: 3368
Post Likes: +1351
Company: Progress Technical. LLC
Location: Doylestown, PA (KDYL)
Aircraft: B-55
Duke? Royal Duke?

--paul


Top

 Post subject: Re: Upgrade from Baron
PostPosted: 24 Oct 2022, 22:28 
Offline



 Profile




Joined: 01/01/18
Posts: 776
Post Likes: +907
Location: West Long Branch, NJ (KBLM)
Aircraft: 1960 Twin Bonanza
If you’re ok with Baron speeds maybe a Navajo or Twin Bonanza? Both similar speeds and op-ex but larger cabins. Easy to insure, easy to fly, easy to maintain without breaking the bank.

_________________
CFII MEI


Top

 Post subject: Re: Upgrade from Baron
PostPosted: 24 Oct 2022, 22:52 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 08/21/14
Posts: 280
Post Likes: +86
Location: KPDK
Aircraft: C421B MU2-40 Solitai
Other than fuel burn a C421 won't need any more maintenance than a 340. Having gone from a 414 to a 421 then to a MU2, I must say there is no comparison. I feel that the 421 is the best piston twin out there, but the MU2 is so reliable and so fast that I would never go back. Hoping not to jinx myself, in 7 years, I have only canceled a trip once. I cruise around 295 ktas and that drastically changes your flying experience. The only negatives are the cost of annual training and the lack of good liability insurance.

_________________
Sandy


Top

 Post subject: Re: Upgrade from Baron
PostPosted: 24 Oct 2022, 23:05 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 11/15/17
Posts: 668
Post Likes: +335
Company: Cessna (retired)
Several big questions first off: single or twin, pressurized or unpressurized, piston or turboprop?

The pressurized piston twins are getting long in the tooth, the Cessna's (and probably others) have a reputation of being maintenance intensive and have SID's to deal with. Also, if you get all the goodies, useful load isn't all that great. A well equipped 414A with full fuel is a two or three person airplane.

The 425 is a good starter twin turboprop, but they are getting old too.

Of course there are the single engine turboprops now, but pretty expensive and depends on your single versus twin viewpoint. One school of thought is that a single turboprop is safer and more reliable than an equivalent twin piston. Others disagree.


Last edited on 24 Oct 2022, 23:18, edited 1 time in total.

Top

 Post subject: Re: Upgrade from Baron
PostPosted: 24 Oct 2022, 23:05 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 19252
Post Likes: +23613
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
I’m curious about what the potential list of upgrades would be.

Pressurization is a game changer, so my suggestions are all pressurized.

Piper Malibu/Mirage

Cabin space probably too small, but probably the lowest cost option.

Cessna 414, 421

Much larger cabin, nice airplanes, but still piston and 200 knot class. Pistons require more maintenance.

TBM

Expensive to get, but fast.

PC12

Expensive to get, huge cabin, somewhat slower.

MU2

Cost per mile similar to 421 but far greater performance. Well built. A home base in Arkansas puts you near MU2 resources. MU2 is a serious machine with serious capability. Basically need a type rating. Insurance is harder for transitioning pilots than it was for me. Autopilots are old, but still work and can be serviced, would really be nice if the GFC 600 is an option someday. Amazingly reliable.

Cessna 441

Probably the best turboprop made, expensive to get, fast and high performing. Cessna 425 might also be an option, but slower.

Citation 501SP

Probably the safest option, fairly easy to fly, nicest for passengers. You need type rating, but not terribly hard to get. Uses more fuel, but relatively inexpensive to purchase. You may have to fly without insurance the first year, or to fly with a mentor. Once past that, though, it will revolutionize your life.

Quote:
don’t want to spend the next year flying with a mentor…

That may be the fastest way to be really fast, but you can also consider no insurance if you can tolerate the risk.

If the jet is really an option financially, then you might consider taking a sim type rating course. This will make you a better pilot overall, and with a type rating in hand, your insurance application will be improved. If that's too much of a commitment, you probably aren't a jet owner.

Do not get an insurance quote now. The first time the underwriter sees you sets their first impression and makes it hard to improve. If you first hit them with the type rating in hand, you will get better results.

Mike C.

_________________
Email mikec (at) ciholas.com


Top

 Post subject: Re: Upgrade from Baron
PostPosted: 24 Oct 2022, 23:24 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 02/15/16
Posts: 216
Post Likes: +31
Location: KJBR Arkansas
Aircraft: Baron 58
Username Protected wrote:
Other than fuel burn a C421 won't need any more maintenance than a 340. Having gone from a 414 to a 421 then to a MU2, I must say there is no comparison. I feel that the 421 is the best piston twin out there, but the MU2 is so reliable and so fast that I would never go back. Hoping not to jinx myself, in 7 years, I have only canceled a trip once. I cruise around 295 ktas and that drastically changes your flying experience. The only negatives are the cost of annual training and the lack of good liability insurance.


I keep coming back to turbines because of reliability but hate the training requirements…. What does the annual training consist if…is it like recurrent trsinnng for a king air?


Top

 Post subject: Re: Upgrade from Baron
PostPosted: 24 Oct 2022, 23:38 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 04/27/10
Posts: 1849
Post Likes: +823
Location: KFFZ & KGRR
Aircraft: BE36, CE501
CE501. No brainer!

_________________
Last 60 mos: CL65 type rating, flew 121, CE680, CE525S, and CE500 type ratings.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Upgrade from Baron
PostPosted: 24 Oct 2022, 23:39 
Offline



User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 06/28/09
Posts: 14129
Post Likes: +9074
Location: Walnut Creek, CA (KCCR)
Aircraft: 1962 Twin Bonanza
I was in the same boat. I had a Baron and needed a bit more space for when hauling 4-5. Most of my trips are under 500 miles in good weather since I live in California. I was comfy with Baron speed, capability and operating costs but just wanted a bit more space so I bought a Twin Bonanza. It's also just a really cool plane to own and anything else up the ladder is a big step in cost. If I needed more capability and flying less than 100 hrs/yr and had good local Mx shop I'd consider a 421, but that's about it for pistons. Each step up the ladder in aviation comes at a price so it really boils down to what you want and what you can afford.

_________________
http://calipilot.com
atp/cfii


Top

 Post subject: Re: Upgrade from Baron
PostPosted: 25 Oct 2022, 00:06 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/17/13
Posts: 6322
Post Likes: +5520
Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
Or a Turbo Commander. Docile, easy to fly and a Suburban of the sky. I have liability only, $1700/year, no hard requirements for type training. But not all are comfortable with liability only and if you have to finance - not an option.

For a piston, I'd suggest Aerostar. Not any bigger, but a heck of a performer.

_________________
Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.


Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 109 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 8  Next




You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2024

.shortnnumbers-85x100.png.
.blackhawk-85x100-2019-09-25.jpg.
.aircraftassociates-85x50.png.
.camguard.jpg.
.bullardaviation-85x50-2.jpg.
.centex-85x50.jpg.
.aircraftferry-85x50.jpg.
.jetacq-85x50.jpg.
.Wentworth_85x100.JPG.
.tat-85x100.png.
.blackwell-85x50.png.
.Latitude.jpg.
.tempest.jpg.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.traceaviation-85x150.png.
.headsetsetc_Small_85x50.jpg.
.airmart-85x150.png.
.pure-medical-85x150.png.
.stanmusikame-85x50.jpg.
.avionwealth-85x50.png.
.ei-85x150.jpg.
.aeroled-85x50-2022-12-06.jpg.
.Genesys_85x50.jpg.
.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.gallagher_85x50.jpg.
.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.cav-85x50.jpg.
.CiESVer2.jpg.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.lucysaviation-85x50.png.
.kadex-85x50.jpg.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.
.one-mile-up-85x100.png.
.kingairnation-85x50.png.
.kingairacademy-85x100.png.
.chairmanaviation-85x50.jpg.
.Foreflight_85x50_color.png.
.wat-85x50.jpg.
.saint-85x50.jpg.
.avfab-85x50-2018-12-04.png.
.ssv-85x50-2023-12-17.jpg.
.boomerang-85x50-2023-12-17.png.
.midwest2.jpg.
.sierratrax-85x50.png.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.bpt-85x50-2019-07-27.jpg.
.Marsh.jpg.
.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.daytona.jpg.
.Wingman 85x50.png.
.Rocky-Mountain-Turbine-85x100.jpg.
.SCA.jpg.
.concorde.jpg.
.jandsaviation-85x50.jpg.
.wilco-85x100.png.
.dbm.jpg.
.AAI.jpg.