06 Nov 2025, 19:18 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Tecnam P2012 STOL Posted: 04 Oct 2022, 15:40 |
|
 |

|
|
Joined: 11/30/18 Posts: 2576 Post Likes: +2317 Location: NH
Aircraft: F33A, 757/767
|
|
Username Protected wrote: I just don't understand the reason for this airplane. A Caravan will do the job so much better. Makes no sense to me. The amount of cycles that Cape Air puts on their airplanes would be very expensive on something with a turbine. There have been various competitors to Cape Air that have popped up over the years that used Caravans, and all of them end up going out of business while Cape Air soldiered on in their 402's.
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Tecnam P2012 STOL Posted: 04 Oct 2022, 15:41 |
|
 |

|
|
Joined: 04/06/11 Posts: 9618 Post Likes: +5107
Aircraft: Warbirds
|
|
|
Geared nosecase will allow some different prop setups. Probably offering better takeoff/climb performance, maybe some noise relief as well.
_________________ Be careful what you ask for, your mechanic wants to sleep at night.
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Tecnam P2012 STOL Posted: 04 Oct 2022, 16:36 |
|
 |

|
|
Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 20732 Post Likes: +26196 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
|
|
Username Protected wrote: The amount of cycles that Cape Air puts on their airplanes would be very expensive on something with a turbine. How so? A pair of GTSIO-520 hourly costs seem similar if not more than one PT6. Note that they can get Jet-A fuel a lot cheaper than us normal folk. GTSIO-520-S certified for 100LL only. So what happens when leaded fuel is banned? The reliability of a turbine engine should win this fight, me thinks. Engine TCDS attached. Engine RPM 3350, prop RPM 2233. Mike C.
Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Tecnam P2012 STOL Posted: 04 Oct 2022, 16:43 |
|
 |

|
|
Joined: 11/30/18 Posts: 2576 Post Likes: +2317 Location: NH
Aircraft: F33A, 757/767
|
|
|
Because turbine engines have inspections and limits based on cycles, piston engines do not.
Cape Air has been in this business for a very long time and they are no dummies. If the caravan made financial sense, they'd be flying them now.
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Tecnam P2012 STOL Posted: 04 Oct 2022, 17:37 |
|
 |

|
|
 |
Joined: 08/24/18 Posts: 569 Post Likes: +384 Location: New Jersey, KVAY
Aircraft: Citabria
|
|
Username Protected wrote: If the internet is correct, the engine in their normal steed, the Cessna 402, is a TSIO-520. Maybe this gives them some parts commonality. Cape Air has been buying the Lycoming powered version.
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Tecnam P2012 STOL Posted: 04 Oct 2022, 20:11 |
|
 |

|
|
Joined: 01/10/17 Posts: 2410 Post Likes: +1788 Company: Skyhaven Airport Inc
Aircraft: various mid century
|
|
|
Does this indicate difficulty behind the scenes with Lycoming as a company that Tecnam will resort to the pains of certifying a new totally different engine installation.
Is Lycoming giving them delays getting engines and parts, quality control, warranty issues?
Tecnam dropping all of the electronic controls and updates after all of the hype to go to an engine that is not too common anymore with a reputation. (I know they are reliable and I have no problem with geared engines)
Skipping the Lycoming IO-720 also seems odd given the airplanes size and weight plus simplicity of eliminating turbos. What is the usable thrust vs weight for 720 vs the electronic, turbo 540 with all the extra complexity. Bemidji Aviation could give a lot of input for many hours of fleet history with 720s. Noise is an issue but modern Type Certificates seem to ignore that anyway. Cirrus vs a late 70s 182 for example.
The geared engines just make more thrust is probably what it comes down to and if they want to remain piston powered not turbine there are not many other options unless they want to hang some R-985s on it.
Repeated STOL approaches and high cycles with a GTSIO? T404s in this environment how did they hold up thought I think I remember they had a different gearbox ratio that did not work out as well as the 421s.
I’m not familiar with the GTSIO-520-S referenced in the article other than the TCDS says it’s similar to the L. What used them?
Will this mean possibly a better engine parts supply and factory support to keep 421s and T404s flying? Especially for the starter adapters with the harmonic balancer.
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Tecnam P2012 STOL Posted: 04 Oct 2022, 23:08 |
|
 |

|

|
 |
Joined: 06/28/09 Posts: 14423 Post Likes: +9555 Location: Walnut Creek, CA (KCCR)
Aircraft: 1962 Twin Bonanza
|
|
Username Protected wrote: The amount of cycles that Cape Air puts on their airplanes would be very expensive on something with a turbine. How so? A pair of GTSIO-520 hourly costs seem similar if not more than one PT6. Note that they can get Jet-A fuel a lot cheaper than us normal folk.
Another factor is the pt6 150 degC start limit. If you're doing quick turns on 20 minute hops with starts on battery you'll be at 300 degC and you have to motor the starter for a good 30-40 seconds to drop it to 150 to introduce fuel. That's super hard on those $3000 batteries and the starter.
_________________ http://calipilot.com atp/cfii
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Tecnam P2012 STOL Posted: 04 Oct 2022, 23:14 |
|
 |

|

|
 |
Joined: 10/05/11 Posts: 10255 Post Likes: +7323 Company: Hausch LLC, rep. Power/mation Location: Milwaukee, WI (KMKE)
Aircraft: 1963 Debonair B33
|
|
Username Protected wrote: If the internet is correct, the engine in their normal steed, the Cessna 402, is a TSIO-520. Maybe this gives them some parts commonality. Cape Air has been buying the Lycoming powered version.
Yes, understood. Are they totally away from the 402 now, or are some still in their operation?
Just wondering if parts availability had pushed them to request a return to a Conti.
_________________ Be Nice
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Tecnam P2012 STOL Posted: 04 Oct 2022, 23:56 |
|
 |

|
|
Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 20732 Post Likes: +26196 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Cape Air has been buying the Lycoming powered version. There is a Lycoming powered 402? I didn't know that. I don't think it came from the factory that way. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Tecnam P2012 STOL Posted: 05 Oct 2022, 00:52 |
|
 |

|

|
 |
Joined: 06/28/09 Posts: 14423 Post Likes: +9555 Location: Walnut Creek, CA (KCCR)
Aircraft: 1962 Twin Bonanza
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Many hours behind geared engines and they simply have no comparison when it comes to STOL capabilities. For that, you need torque and "low gearing".
600ft takeoff in my old 520. Any direct drive Commander would need twice as much, at least.
[youtube]http://youtu.be/0zEhHJkUERE[/youtube] Cool airplane.
_________________ http://calipilot.com atp/cfii
|
|
| Top |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot post attachments in this forum
|
Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us
BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a
forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include
the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner,
Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.
BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates.
Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.
Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2025
|
|
|
|