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 Post subject: Re: Aerostar power settings
PostPosted: 06 Sep 2022, 22:36 
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Username Protected wrote:
Maybe I am missing something. He is asking about power settings, not airspeeds. He probably wants to know RPM/MPs that are best on final.

Power settings are not absolute on an approach. Winds will require you to adjust power.


Power “settings” are irrelevant imho. It’s whatever it takes to keep the airspeed appropriate.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostar power settings
PostPosted: 06 Sep 2022, 23:26 
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I generally agree with pretty much all that's already been written here. Yes, everyone flying an Aerostar should get aircraft specific-training. Yes, you need to keep your speed up and the absolute speed is more important than the MP/RPM. Yes, variable conditions will require slightly different power settings to get the performance you are looking for. After getting great training, I'd recommend going out with a safety pilot/friend and just practicing with various conditions and writing them down. Simulate a failed engine (don't really shut it down) and see what power settings you need for level flight in a hold, for the descent on a 3deg glideslope etc. Then try a no flap approach simulation and see what your power settings are. Play with the plane and get comfortable.
That much said, it helps to have somewhere to start. It has been a long time since I flew my Superstar, but I went back and looked at some of my notes. These worked for my plane, they might not work perfectly for his:
MP target for descent: 25" with max 41" and no more than 2" drop per minute
Spoilers give an additional 1000-1500fpm descent with no other change.
MP target at FAF: 18" if typical headwind, 16" if smooth air.
Pattern power: 18" & 2400rpm and never below blue line IAS until 20deg flaps and lined up with final landing runway.
If go-around: 38" & the plane has tons of drag with gear down and flaps 45deg, so get those up fast (but not all the way up on flaps until you re-build speed). My 700 needed about 37" just to maintain level flight if the gear was down with flaps 45deg.

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 Post subject: Re: Aerostar power settings
PostPosted: 06 Sep 2022, 23:54 
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Company: Northern Aviation, LLC
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Username Protected wrote:
Power “settings” are irrelevant imho. It’s whatever it takes to keep the airspeed appropriate.

As a friend was fond of saying: “Stick and rudder as required”. In other words, just do whatever is needed to achieve the desired outcome.

The Aerostar is a very honest flying airplane, yes it’s a bit different than others in its class but a lot of the “lore” is overblown. Stall recovery and the need to fly an approach at blazing speeds are a couple. The A* has better control authority at 100kts than my twin Comanche. Speed control is also easier, with high gear and flap speed it’s easy to fit into a pattern filled with Boeings or trainers. 100 or 170Kts, it’s equally happy at both. Want to go faster push the throttles foreword, to slow down, just pull them back. Very little trim change. It truly is an amazing flying airplane.

Like any new type, practicing slow flight is about the best way to get a feel for and confidence in a plane. Pick a safe altitude, such as 5k AGL, and start a series of slower and slower medium bank turns. You will be surprised that the airplane actually handles very nicely at speeds most will tell you it will turn into a brick.

The biggest difference I have noticed compared to similar planes? It builds induced drag much faster at slow speed. If getting slow, rather than a couple inches of MP push it up 4-5. Don’t get behind it, good advice in any plane but even more so in the A-Star. Probably the only “gotcha” with the type for people accustomed to the offerings of the big 3 is the comparatively little trim required with speed changes. It’s much easier to get slow, or fast, and not notice. Like a tail wheel airplane it isn’t hard, but definitely less tolerant to sloppy flying.

Jeff


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostar power settings
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2022, 08:04 
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Username Protected wrote:

you must fly it by the numbers. and if done so it is very safe.


My best suggestion about flying an Aerostar is you must go into it with a jet mentality, not a light twin mentality. If you do that, you will find it is one of the best flying piston aircraft produced. If you go into it with a light twin mentality, it will bite you, and it doesn't like to take prisoners...


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostar power settings
PostPosted: 11 Sep 2022, 08:13 
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The flaps provide a lot of drag....
Given that really honest plane, you can fly the approach at any speed from 100 to 150.
I usually fly VFR at 140kn 10 deg flap until on final... 110 and 20 deg on final
Dump full flaps and decelerate as you cross the threshold...
With full flaps and throttles closed will slow down really fast.

IFR with low weather fly at 120 to 125 never more than 20 deg flaps until the
go around/land decision has been made.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostar power settings
PostPosted: 11 Sep 2022, 08:28 
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Username Protected wrote:
I usually fly VFR at 140kn 10 deg flap until on final... 110 and 20 deg on final
Dump full flaps and decelerate as you cross the threshold...
With full flaps and throttles closed will slow down really fast.



This is a textbook example.... of everything that is NOT taught in the industry....


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostar power settings
PostPosted: 11 Sep 2022, 19:30 
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https://youtu.be/dA8SRAUC7Iw


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostar power settings
PostPosted: 11 Sep 2022, 20:42 
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Username Protected wrote:

The Aerostar is a very honest flying airplane, yes it’s a bit different than others in its class but a lot of the “lore” is overblown. Stall recovery and the need to fly an approach at blazing speeds are a couple. The A* has better control authority at 100kts than my twin Comanche. Speed control is also easier, with high gear and flap speed it’s easy to fit into a pattern filled with Boeings or trainers. 100 or 170Kts, it’s equally happy at both. Want to go faster push the throttles foreword, to slow down, just pull them back. Very little trim change. It truly is an amazing flying airplane.

Like any new type, practicing slow flight is about the best way to get a feel for and confidence in a plane. Pick a safe altitude, such as 5k AGL, and start a series of slower and slower medium bank turns. You will be surprised that the airplane actually handles very nicely at speeds most will tell you it will turn into a brick.

The biggest difference I have noticed compared to similar planes? It builds induced drag much faster at slow speed. If getting slow, rather than a couple inches of MP push it up 4-5. Don’t get behind it, good advice in any plane but even more so in the A-Star. Probably the only “gotcha” with the type for people accustomed to the offerings of the big 3 is the comparatively little trim required with speed changes. It’s much easier to get slow, or fast, and not notice. Like a tail wheel airplane it isn’t hard, but definitely less tolerant to sloppy flying.

Jeff

One hundred percent agree. Here's me racing a cell to the threshold...which of course has me distracted and I start to let the airspeed bleed off. Having said that, feed in some power and everything was fine. No drama and I definitely got below 100kias. Classic mistake and the Aerostar was just fine...

Even greased the landing.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/3XclhzghoWw[/youtube]


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostar power settings
PostPosted: 11 Sep 2022, 21:57 
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Username Protected wrote:
Have a friend new to a Machen 700 Aerostar . Doesn’t know power settings for approach .
Any ideas on best settings for approach speed .

Seems like a fair question, why is no one willing to answer?

I like to have the settings posted front and center, for when I forget, or the SHTF.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostar power settings
PostPosted: 11 Sep 2022, 22:48 
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Thank you Jack . Brief & to the point .


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostar power settings
PostPosted: 12 Sep 2022, 05:53 
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Username Protected wrote:
Have a friend new to a Machen 700 Aerostar . Doesn’t know power settings for approach .
Any ideas on best settings for approach speed .

Seems like a fair question, why is no one willing to answer?

I like to have the settings posted front and center, for when I forget, or the SHTF.


Last edited on 13 Sep 2022, 01:03, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Aerostar power settings
PostPosted: 12 Sep 2022, 07:33 
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Your VxSE is below VMC (85)
Also your power for holding seems high...

Maybe I'm an odd duck but I shy away from cook book numbers.
Ice, bad down draft, big thermals ,wind shear...OEI
All make the cook book numbers wrong.

Look out the window, listen to what the plane is trying to tell you...
The Aerostar communicates its state really well...
Noticeable change in control forces from 100 to 150Kn.
The pre stall buffet is 5knots wide and would wake the dead.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostar power settings
PostPosted: 12 Sep 2022, 07:46 
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Location: KCRQ
Aircraft: Breeezy, 182,601P
Also really fun when the tower asks for best possible speed and then tells you to slow down because your closing on the Jet in front of you by 50 knots.

You can fly a VFR approach at any speed from 85 to 190Knots.
(Above gear speed 156Kn the slow down at the end is sporty and really would not want to do that IFR.)

More than once when doing flight following or pop up clearance ATC has recorded Aerostar as Arrow....followed a few minutes later by how is an arrow going that fast
(Mine was built by piper, but I've learned not to say Piper Aerostar)


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostar power settings
PostPosted: 12 Sep 2022, 08:36 
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Joined: 01/23/18
Posts: 611
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Username Protected wrote:
Have a friend new to a Machen 700 Aerostar . Doesn’t know power settings for approach .
Any ideas on best settings for approach speed .

Seems like a fair question, why is no one willing to answer?

I like to have the settings posted front and center, for when I forget, or the SHTF.


Just so EVERYONE understands:

Jack’s numbers are not for an Aerostar.

Anyone attempting to clear an obstacle at Jack’s Vx(se) in an Aerostar will have a very bad day.

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 Post subject: Re: Aerostar power settings
PostPosted: 12 Sep 2022, 10:19 
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Joined: 11/25/16
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Username Protected wrote:
Your VxSE is below VMC (85)
Also your power for holding seems high...

Also it appears to be a RAM powered Aerostar with geared engines. :D


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