banner
banner

28 Mar 2024, 15:26 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Concorde Battery (banner)



Reply to topic  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: Why No Oil Quantity Gauge Lycoming & Continental?
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2022, 19:17 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 05/29/14
Posts: 2879
Post Likes: +2932
Location: CEA3
Aircraft: PA24-260, C340 Ram 7
I’m wondering why all the engine monitor manufacturers don’t have an engine oil quantity system?

Many in crash talk would have had more time for emergency descents etc. if they were alerted to excessive oil quantity loss.

Murray


Top

 Post subject: Re: Why No Oil Quantity Gauge Lycoming & Continental?
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2022, 19:21 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 11/15/17
Posts: 668
Post Likes: +335
Company: Cessna (retired)
Costs more, weighs more, requires more maintenance, requires certification failure consideration.

Also might be difficult to interpret since readings will be different with engine running versus not running.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Why No Oil Quantity Gauge Lycoming & Continental?
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2022, 19:21 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 11/15/17
Posts: 668
Post Likes: +335
Company: Cessna (retired)
Costs more, weighs more, requires more maintenance, requires certification failure consideration.

Also might be difficult to interpret since readings will be different with engine running versus not running.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Why No Oil Quantity Gauge Lycoming & Continental?
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2022, 19:24 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 11/16/14
Posts: 8632
Post Likes: +10457
Company: Forever a Student Pilot
Location: Colfax Washington
Aircraft: 1947 Bonanza 35
:popcorn:

_________________
Could You be Nice Sometimes?


Top

 Post subject: Re: Why No Oil Quantity Gauge Lycoming & Continental?
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2022, 19:42 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 11/18/09
Posts: 1232
Post Likes: +376
Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ (KHII)
Aircraft: 1979 Bonanza V35B
They’re available for experimental for only a few hundred dollars!


Top

 Post subject: Re: Why No Oil Quantity Gauge Lycoming & Continental?
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2022, 23:37 
Offline




User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/10/07
Posts: 30426
Post Likes: +10534
Location: Minneapolis, MN (KFCM)
Aircraft: 1970 Baron B55
Username Protected wrote:
They’re available for experimental for only a few hundred dollars!

AFaIK, the ones on automobile engines use sound (ultrasonic) to measure the depth in the sump but I think that only works when the engine isn't running. In an airplane there'd be issues with the level changing with oil temp, g-force, RPM, and aircraft pitch even if you could measure the level with the engine running.

_________________
-lance

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Why No Oil Quantity Gauge Lycoming & Continental?
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2022, 23:53 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 02/17/15
Posts: 577
Post Likes: +688
Location: Bellevue WA
Aircraft: T210M
A 1957 Bentley had a sensor in the oil pan like a fuel level sensor. You pushed a button on the dash below the fuel gauge and it read oil level on the fuel gauge. Works either engine running or stopped. I expect Bentley preferred that you use it engine off.
Excessive engine oil loss is quick and rare. Does anyone really see low oil pressure when it happens? I imagine most times there’s a surge or other indicators that make the pilot look at the oil pressure gauge and sees a problem.
I, like “most” pilots, check oil quantity during my pre-flight and expect quantity to remain the same for the duration of the flight.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Why No Oil Quantity Gauge Lycoming & Continental?
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2022, 23:54 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 08/26/15
Posts: 9514
Post Likes: +8745
Company: airlines (*CRJ,A320)
Location: Florida panhandle
Aircraft: Travel Air,T-6B,etc*
I have a feeling these devices work a lot better (in aircraft) in the reservoir of a dry sump system than in the oil pan of a wet sump.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Why No Oil Quantity Gauge Lycoming & Continental?
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2022, 23:58 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 02/17/15
Posts: 577
Post Likes: +688
Location: Bellevue WA
Aircraft: T210M
Jim, I’ll bet your right. Entirely different system from most. More layers of system to fail too.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Why No Oil Quantity Gauge Lycoming & Continental?
PostPosted: 01 Aug 2022, 13:48 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 04/21/16
Posts: 651
Post Likes: +266
I'd rather have a video camera view of the belly, underside, or outside of the cowling(s).Much easier to install, can also spot fuel and or Hyd leaks


Top

 Post subject: Re: Why No Oil Quantity Gauge Lycoming & Continental?
PostPosted: 01 Aug 2022, 14:04 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 05/25/11
Posts: 992
Post Likes: +1024
Location: Indianapolis, IN (KUMP)
Aircraft: 1982 Bonanza A36
Username Protected wrote:
AFaIK, the ones on automobile engines use sound (ultrasonic) to measure the depth in the sump but I think that only works when the engine isn't running.


BMW has been using oil level sensor for a while and it is actually opposite to what you state; oil level is measured in running steady-state condition (which would not be difficult in an aircraft since it is mostly at steady-state = cruise).

The BMW sensor also measures oil quality too (contaminant level) and uses capacitance (dielectric strength of the oil to be exact) to do both functions - not ultrasonics.

It would make sense in an aircraft from a utility and predictive maintenance standpoint (when to change the oil for example) except it adds weight and complexity as the sensor needs a computer to interpret the data and also control the measurement. In a car where you have a lot of controllers already, you can integrate the e-dipstick function without adding a dedicated controller; in an our aircraft it would have to be a separate box.

I know a lot of people hate the BMW design but in my experience it is both very reliable AND accurate in providing the info about oil level AND quality of the oil.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Why No Oil Quantity Gauge Lycoming & Continental?
PostPosted: 01 Aug 2022, 14:29 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 03/23/08
Posts: 6908
Post Likes: +3553
Company: AssuredPartners Aerospace Phx.
Location: KDVT, 46U
Aircraft: IAR823, LrJet, 240Z
All my old Mercedes just have an oil level float sensor.

Attachment:
1245420017U.jpg


I've always thought it would be smart.

My other idea was a little V-channel on the belly leading to a passage and an optical sensor, when the fluid blocks the sensor the "belly warning" light goes on letting you know some crap is on the belly.

Or just a camera, which I now have so I can see my belly and gear in action.

TJ


Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.

_________________
Tom Johnson-Az/Wy
AssuredPartners Aerospace Insurance
Tj.Johnson@AssuredPartners.com
C: 602-628-2701


Top

 Post subject: Re: Why No Oil Quantity Gauge Lycoming & Continental?
PostPosted: 01 Aug 2022, 14:31 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 11/22/08
Posts: 2913
Post Likes: +921
Company: USAF Propulsion Laboratory
Location: Dayton, OH
Aircraft: PA24, AEST 680, 421
Username Protected wrote:
AFaIK, the ones on automobile engines use sound (ultrasonic) to measure the depth in the sump but I think that only works when the engine isn't running.


BMW has been using oil level sensor for a while and it is actually opposite to what you state; oil level is measured in running steady-state condition (which would not be difficult in an aircraft since it is mostly at steady-state = cruise).

The BMW sensor also measures oil quality too (contaminant level) and uses capacitance (dielectric strength of the oil to be exact) to do both functions - not ultrasonics.

It would make sense in an aircraft from a utility and predictive maintenance standpoint (when to change the oil for example) except it adds weight and complexity as the sensor needs a computer to interpret the data and also control the measurement. In a car where you have a lot of controllers already, you can integrate the e-dipstick function without adding a dedicated controller; in an our aircraft it would have to be a separate box.

I know a lot of people hate the BMW design but in my experience it is both very reliable AND accurate in providing the info about oil level AND quality of the oil.

BMW has been using capacitive oil qty measurement for about 20 yrs now. Works while the engine is operating and they have been quite reliable. I've seen sensor pricing typically less than $200. Seems like an easy add for a company like JPI, EI, Insight

Top

 Post subject: Re: Why No Oil Quantity Gauge Lycoming & Continental?
PostPosted: 02 Aug 2022, 00:01 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 01/06/08
Posts: 4665
Post Likes: +2678
Aircraft: B55 P2
Seems like a gauge, even a not very accurate one would be helpful. Years ago on a bonanza, hand a bit leak open up on one of the tubes around the pushrods (don't know its formal name). Landed after a 2 hour flight to see oil all over the sides of the plane, and down a couple of quarts. No warning at all in flight. A bigger leak, or a long flight and it could have been bad.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Why No Oil Quantity Gauge Lycoming & Continental?
PostPosted: 02 Aug 2022, 07:33 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 02/18/18
Posts: 551
Post Likes: +280
Location: KFIN
My old 911 had an oil level gauge. Only accurate at idle and standing still. Same dry sump as Lycoming and Continental.


Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next




You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2024

.blackwell-85x50.png.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.Marsh.jpg.
.gallagher_85x50.jpg.
.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.boomerang-85x50-2023-12-17.png.
.aircraftassociates-85x50.png.
.daytona.jpg.
.sierratrax-85x50.png.
.wat-85x50.jpg.
.pure-medical-85x150.png.
.AAI.jpg.
.midwest2.jpg.
.jandsaviation-85x50.jpg.
.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.one-mile-up-85x100.png.
.cav-85x50.jpg.
.avionwealth-85x50.png.
.bullardaviation-85x50-2.jpg.
.saint-85x50.jpg.
.aeroled-85x50-2022-12-06.jpg.
.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.kingairacademy-85x100.png.
.traceaviation-85x150.png.
.avfab-85x50-2018-12-04.png.
.ei-85x150.jpg.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.tempest.jpg.
.SCA.jpg.
.Rocky-Mountain-Turbine-85x100.jpg.
.Wingman 85x50.png.
.jetacq-85x50.jpg.
.lucysaviation-85x50.png.
.Genesys_85x50.jpg.
.dbm.jpg.
.ssv-85x50-2023-12-17.jpg.
.aircraftferry-85x50.jpg.
.Wentworth_85x100.JPG.
.headsetsetc_Small_85x50.jpg.
.kadex-85x50.jpg.
.wilco-85x100.png.
.centex-85x50.jpg.
.stanmusikame-85x50.jpg.
.kingairnation-85x50.png.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.blackhawk-85x100-2019-09-25.jpg.
.camguard.jpg.
.bpt-85x50-2019-07-27.jpg.
.airmart-85x150.png.
.Latitude.jpg.
.chairmanaviation-85x50.jpg.
.concorde.jpg.
.shortnnumbers-85x100.png.
.tat-85x100.png.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.
.Foreflight_85x50_color.png.
.CiESVer2.jpg.