19 Apr 2024, 16:29 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Raptor NG - Hybrid-Electric Ducted Fan Twin  Posted: 06 Mar 2023, 23:43 |
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Joined: 06/17/14
Posts: 5010
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Location: KJYO
Aircraft: C-182, GA-7
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Username Protected wrote: <snip>
Raptor 1 was what, a 120 knot airplane? Maybe it could have gone faster if it could have climbed out of the pattern without overheating. Take that fuselage, make it bigger, remove an inline prop for twin ducts, and what has he done to make this a 300 knot design?
In the comments on the video, he mentions 25k feet (unpressurized). So besides taking those new motors and converting them to diesel, I must have missed that he was also going to add turbos. We know he is familiar with that. No mention of how he would deal with cooling issues that plagued Raptor 1. Maybe dropping it from 25K feet might work. It should accelerate to 300 kts with enough angle iron to keep it from breaking apart in flight.
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Post subject: Re: Raptor NG - Hybrid-Electric Ducted Fan Twin Posted: 07 Mar 2023, 01:21 |
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Joined: 12/17/13
Posts: 6357
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Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
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What is true for helicopters is also true for planes: The bigger the rotor disc, the less power needed to hover. They'll also have slower top speed. Solar Impulse 2 was a great example - it lifted 5000lbs on less than 100hp and flew 10hrs straight (at night) on batteries alone. Extremely efficient. I know people get excited about speed (and I do too), but I get almost more excited about efficiency/hypermiling. The Grob Strato 2C is extremely fascinating to me and I wish more producers would explore that envelope. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grob_Strato_2C
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Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.
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Post subject: Re: Raptor NG - Hybrid-Electric Ducted Fan Twin Posted: 07 Mar 2023, 08:43 |
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Joined: 07/06/14
Posts: 3008
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Location: MA
Aircraft: Cessna 340A
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Username Protected wrote: Maybe GM will build that one. Peter has a leg up — he’s got all the experience from Raptor 1 to draw upon.
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Post subject: Re: Raptor NG - Hybrid-Electric Ducted Fan Twin Posted: 07 Mar 2023, 11:28 |
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Joined: 04/26/13
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Location: Columbus , IN (KBAK)
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Username Protected wrote: This is the Bonney Gull 2.0, except Bonney got his off the ground. Looks like a mechanical failure of some sort. The airplane seems to have flown OK.
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Post subject: Re: Raptor NG - Hybrid-Electric Ducted Fan Twin Posted: 20 Apr 2023, 11:32 |
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Joined: 08/10/14
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Location: Northwest Arkansas (KVBT)
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Username Protected wrote: Just to put values on this; current automobile grade lithium cells offer about 250 wh/kg density, and we can move forward with that. But, folks will keep pushing advancements, so again, I’m hopeful that we reach 500 wh/kg in 5-15 years.
Anything over 500 wh/kg makes electric personal airplanes possible. https://www.teslarati.com/electric-plan ... tl-unveil/ Quote: CATL announced the new electric plane “Condensed Battery,” at the Shanghai auto show yesterday, and it has captured significant attention for its incredible energy density. According to CATL, the new battery will have an energy density of 500Wh/Kg, a number which is roughly double the Tesla 4680 at ~270Wh/Kg. Moreover, this project isn’t some concept that will never see the production line. CATL states the new battery will be entering mass production later this year. This news probably deserves its own topic, but this was the most recent discussion of battery requirements for aviation-capable energy density.
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Post subject: Re: Raptor NG - Hybrid-Electric Ducted Fan Twin Posted: 20 Apr 2023, 13:07 |
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Joined: 11/20/16
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Location: Austin, TX area
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The Chinese are going to have to make a non-flamable battery before I get more than 10' off the ground in a lithium powered airplane. I don't want to ride a giant sparkler.
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Post subject: Re: Raptor NG - Hybrid-Electric Ducted Fan Twin Posted: 20 Apr 2023, 13:41 |
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Joined: 12/03/14
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Username Protected wrote: The Chinese are going to have to make a non-flamable battery before I get more than 10' off the ground in a lithium powered airplane. I don't want to ride a giant sparkler. Yeah, let's go fly with gasoline instead. Just pointing out that if battery powered airplanes were the norm and someone proposed flying with highly flammable liquid fuels, we'd all think that is totally nuts. Mike C.
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Post subject: Re: Raptor NG - Hybrid-Electric Ducted Fan Twin Posted: 20 Apr 2023, 13:50 |
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Joined: 08/05/16
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Username Protected wrote: The Chinese are going to have to make a non-flamable battery before I get more than 10' off the ground in a lithium powered airplane. I don't want to ride a giant sparkler. Yeah, let's go fly with gasoline instead. Just pointing out that if battery powered airplanes were the norm and someone proposed flying with highly flammable liquid fuels, we'd all think that is totally nuts. Mike C.
I always laugh when I see an electric car fire in the news. Gas cars are statistically 3 times as likely to catch fire as electric cars. Like airline crashes, the fact that they are news at all is a testament to how rare it is. Stuff that happens every day (like gas car fires) is not newsworthy.
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Post subject: Re: Raptor NG - Hybrid-Electric Ducted Fan Twin Posted: 20 Apr 2023, 14:29 |
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Username Protected wrote: Gasoline fires are a heck of a lot easier to put out than battery fires. Especially with current equipment. It makes little difference with an airplane (at least to the passengers) but car battery fires that burn for days can be a real headache. That is true. But to Mike's point if you're looking at two cars and one is 300% more likely to catch fire, "but it's easier to put out" is probably not going to swing things the other way.
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Post subject: Re: Raptor NG - Hybrid-Electric Ducted Fan Twin Posted: 20 Apr 2023, 15:00 |
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Username Protected wrote: Gasoline fires are a heck of a lot easier to put out than battery fires. Especially with current equipment. It makes little difference with an airplane (at least to the passengers) but car battery fires that burn for days can be a real headache. That is true. But to Mike's point if you're looking at two cars and one is 300% more likely to catch fire, "but it's easier to put out" is probably not going to swing things the other way.
As a car buyer, no. For a firefighter, mayor, county exec or county legislator, battery fires are going to cause sleepless nights.
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Post subject: Re: Raptor NG - Hybrid-Electric Ducted Fan Twin Posted: 20 Apr 2023, 15:56 |
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My son is a professional firefighter, their protocol now for an EV fire is to try to protect surrounding structures, but to let the EV burn itself out. Trying to put one out is a fool's errand.
I have a friend who had a gasoline fire in flight. He and his passenger survived by putting it on the ground, quickly. I also had a PU truck that burned to a crisp, I was driving, after a bungled fuel filter change. (No, not me) I had plenty of time to pull over, stop and get clear though.
Most of the time people burned in an airplane is post crash. Not sure an electric airplane would fare better.
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Post subject: Re: Raptor NG - Hybrid-Electric Ducted Fan Twin Posted: 21 Apr 2023, 11:26 |
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Username Protected wrote:
That is true. But to Mike's point if you're looking at two cars and one is 300% more likely to catch fire, "but it's easier to put out" is probably not going to swing things the other way.
As a car buyer, no. For a firefighter, mayor, county exec or county legislator, battery fires are going to cause sleepless nights.
I think if you asked most cities if they’d rather deal with 3 gas fires or one EV fire you would prefer the one, or at least not clearly prefer 3.
In either case I think the car itself is toast so it’s more about the disruption and surrounding damage.
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