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 Post subject: Citation 501 Short Field Landing
PostPosted: 03 Jul 2022, 16:33 
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Joined: 05/05/09
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Aircraft: G44, C501, C55, R66
I just finished this 501 "restoration" and delivered it to a friend on Friday. This is a 2,800 ft strip at 4,400 ft elevation. 2 adults, 1 child, about 2300lbs of fuel on board. Awesome machines!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paqigkGDd54


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501 Short Field Landing
PostPosted: 03 Jul 2022, 16:37 
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Joined: 06/06/12
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Company: FlightRepublic
Location: Bee Cave, TX
Aircraft: DA40, C182
Very cool! Great flying, Michael.
I love the paint scheme of that plane. It really suits the airframe and makes it look a lot more modern.

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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501 Short Field Landing
PostPosted: 03 Jul 2022, 16:41 
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Username Protected wrote:
I just finished this 501 "restoration" and delivered it to a friend on Friday. This is a 2,800 ft strip at 4,400 ft elevation. 2 adults, 1 child, about 2300lbs of fuel on board. Awesome machines!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paqigkGDd54


What’s Vref on that approach? How about wind? Reversers?

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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501 Short Field Landing
PostPosted: 03 Jul 2022, 16:44 
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Joined: 07/10/10
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Location: New Braunfels, TX
Aircraft: Conquest
What airport is that? Looks really cool - I want to go there.

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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501 Short Field Landing
PostPosted: 03 Jul 2022, 16:50 
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Username Protected wrote:
What airport is that? Looks really cool - I want to go there.

It looks like MountainAire in North Carolina?
I've never been, but I've always wanted to!

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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501 Short Field Landing
PostPosted: 03 Jul 2022, 16:54 
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Joined: 01/28/13
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Location: Indiana
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Beautiful and well done to Michael, plane and landing.

Unless I’m mistaken the Rwy has a nice incline helping to shorten a well flown approach/landing. MT has laid the gauntlet down let’s see which jet drivers take up the challenge, safely, and compete with this one.

I do remember a TBM driver with a short Rwy in TX that also owned a Cessna Mustang. Looked tight :bugeye: in his Mustang. Mustang of course a very different animal in many ways from MT’s 501. Gotta be Apples vs Apples…

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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501 Short Field Landing
PostPosted: 03 Jul 2022, 17:09 
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Joined: 05/05/09
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Aircraft: G44, C501, C55, R66
2NC0 in NC, Mountain Air CC. Family house up here. The runway grade really helps and makes it feel longer. TRs, absolutely. Zero winds this day but up to 10kts tailwind max. VREF was around 99 this day. The Honda Jet scheme really turned out nice!


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501 Short Field Landing
PostPosted: 03 Jul 2022, 17:27 
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Joined: 12/03/14
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Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
What’s Vref on that approach?

It sure looked like he was under Vref, pretty high AOA. Check out the nosewheel height above ground at touchdown. A camera angle at runway level would make this even more clear how nose high this was.

Attachment:
501-2nc0-touchdown.png

At 10,000 lbs landing weight, which should be close based on the data given, Vref is 102 KIAS. Book landing distance is 2400 ft, so quite doable.

TCH (threshold crossing height) of about 18 feet also helps a lot. Book distances are based on 50 ft which eats about 1000 ft of runway you don't use. This looks like he touched down 250 ft from runway end.

Uphill helps, too.

Got to be careful on drop off runways, though. Wind blowing over the end can cause sink right at the end leading to mushy plop.

A question will be takeoff. At 10,000 lbs, book distances are about 3500 ft, which is beyond runway length. Dropping 500 lbs (1 person, child, some taxi fuel), you are still in the 3150 ft range. It has to get colder and/or windier to make it out within book specs.

Any wetness on the runway would make it a no go, landing or takeoff.

Keeping a 501 at this airport is marginal. It will take top notch piloting, careful analysis, and there will be lots of days you simply can't go. There is no room for error.

Quote:
Reversers?

Deployed as shown in the video. Have to reduce to idle reverse thrust at 60 KIAS, so that limits what they can do. Still helps to have them deployed to reduce residual idle thrust, though.

Mike C.


Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.

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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501 Short Field Landing
PostPosted: 03 Jul 2022, 18:02 
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Don't want to land short there!


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501 Short Field Landing
PostPosted: 03 Jul 2022, 18:09 
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Username Protected wrote:
MT has laid the gauntlet down let’s see which jet drivers take up the challenge, safely, and compete with this one.

I'm in not going to attempt this, but just using book numbers for my V that maximize weight for the runway length give the following results.

Conditions: 25C, 2900 ft runway, 4500 ft MSL elevation, no wind.

Landing weight: 13,150 lbs (3900 lbs useful load), Vref 99 KIAS

The book gives no credit for uphill landing on runway 32, uses 50 ft TCH, and no use of TRs. Thus you can beat these numbers by a huge amount.

Takeoff weight: 12,500 lbs (3250 lbs useful load), V1 85 KIAS, Vr 92 KIAS

The book gives no credit for downhill takeoff on runway 14, assumes engine failure at V1, and has runway end crossing height of 35 ft. Thus you can beat these numbers handily as well.

If you use the gradient the "wrong" way, landing 14 or takeoff 32, then the book penalties are severe and unworkable. You need the wind to cooperate.

With a 500 lbs cabin load (2 adults, 1 child, say), and wanting to get back out again, I'd have 2750 lbs fuel. This would allow me about the same range as the 501 with 2300 lbs fuel.

The V is an amazing short field airplane. The improved wing goes slower and it goes faster than the prior models.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501 Short Field Landing
PostPosted: 03 Jul 2022, 18:52 
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Joined: 02/10/21
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Location: KBMG - Central Indiana
Aircraft: Baron 58
Like Mike C said, TRs don’t come into play in the numbers. They do help operationally. The Citation 501 series have some awesome brakes. Nail Vref and you can make the book numbers all day long.


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501 Short Field Landing
PostPosted: 03 Jul 2022, 19:08 
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Joined: 01/19/16
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Location: 13FA Earle Airpark FL/0A7 Hville NC
Aircraft: E33/152A
I watched a 501 depart from there pretty heavy. He actually dropped a little below the departure point (where Mike touched down) before turning right, out climbing the rising terrain. I would have turned left but it worked out.

The incline really aids the deceleration on landing and more than makes up for the density altitude on takeoff.


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501 Short Field Landing
PostPosted: 03 Jul 2022, 20:51 
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Joined: 09/11/08
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Location: Cedartown Ga
Aircraft: Straight 35
Nicely done!!


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501 Short Field Landing
PostPosted: 03 Jul 2022, 21:26 
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Looks like it belongs on the low approach at oshkosh


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501 Short Field Landing
PostPosted: 03 Jul 2022, 21:36 
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Username Protected wrote:
Looks like it belongs on the low approach at oshkosh


Vref was 99… how exactly would that work? But, at least there would be more room for all the heavy Bonanzas on the 135 knot route.

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