18 Apr 2024, 22:26 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Help Me Find a Marchetti S211 Posted: 19 Jun 2022, 10:40 |
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Joined: 05/31/13 Posts: 1235 Post Likes: +602 Company: Docking Drawer Location: KCCR
Aircraft: C425
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I have a flight manual in pdf. PM me if you need it. I have precisely one hour in the 211 and liked it. Silly simple to fly and super forgiving. It's great for aerobatic training including spins. I'm not sure if you can do that in a L-39. APS in Mesa operates two of them so they might have some leads for you.
_________________ ATP, CFI-I, MEI http://www.dockingdrawer.com
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Post subject: Re: Help Me Find a Marchetti S211 Posted: 21 Jun 2022, 00:51 |
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Joined: 01/03/15 Posts: 108 Post Likes: +113
Aircraft: King Air
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Call Doug Matthews. He knows more about the S211 than most, and has been importing them. https://classicfighters.org/A friend of mine got rated in it last year. He really likes it and may start teaching in it. PM me if you want me to try to connect you two. Username Protected wrote: Get an Alphajet my friend! 1. That's a completely different league of aircraft. I've got about 14 hours in the Alpha, and it performs better than the T-38 in pretty much everything. 2. Hans sold his Alpha Jets off, I believe. So you'll maybe... maybe... find one on the market somewhere for sale, and it will be $1M+.
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Post subject: Re: Help Me Find a Marchetti S211 Posted: 21 Jun 2022, 19:10 |
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Joined: 08/21/13 Posts: 394 Post Likes: +369 Company: Horizon Aviation
Aircraft: T303, Pitts M12, T-6
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A friend and I were at Osh in 2016. There were a pair of S211s on the ramp with “for sale” signs. $350K apiece roughly. My friend and I started talking…. He already owned a SF260 - so we were familiar with the joy of buying factory parts for an Italian warbird. Not cheap.
So I called Mike at Air Power (or whatever his company’s name is). He’s the sole importer of Alenia parts. I asked him about parts support for the 211. He said “Do yourself a favor and buy an L-39. It’s easier to support and much less expensive.” So when the guy who I would buy parts from tells me not to buy Alenia, I listen!
We bought a very good L-39 from Code 1 in 2018 and then proceeded to doll it up. It’s now a monster with full garmin, Garrett 731, great systems, US O2, and whatnot,
I really like the 211, but we’ve been very pleased with the support and operation of the L-39.
Zeke
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Post subject: Re: Help Me Find a Marchetti S211 Posted: 21 Jun 2022, 19:10 |
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Joined: 08/21/13 Posts: 394 Post Likes: +369 Company: Horizon Aviation
Aircraft: T303, Pitts M12, T-6
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Duplicate - because the internet is smarter than I am. Z
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Post subject: Re: Help Me Find a Marchetti S211 Posted: 21 Jun 2022, 20:18 |
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Joined: 09/05/09 Posts: 4103 Post Likes: +2745 Location: Small Town, NC
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Username Protected wrote: A friend and I were at Osh in 2016. There were a pair of S211s on the ramp with “for sale” signs. $350K apiece roughly. My friend and I started talking…. He already owned a SF260 - so we were familiar with the joy of buying factory parts for an Italian warbird. Not cheap.
So I called Mike at Air Power (or whatever his company’s name is). He’s the sole importer of Alenia parts. I asked him about parts support for the 211. He said “Do yourself a favor and buy an L-39. It’s easier to support and much less expensive.” So when the guy who I would buy parts from tells me not to buy Alenia, I listen!
We bought a very good L-39 from Code 1 in 2018 and then proceeded to doll it up. It’s now a monster with full garmin, Garrett 731, great systems, US O2, and whatnot,
I really like the 211, but we’ve been very pleased with the support and operation of the L-39.
Zeke Dollars and parts aside; I’m struggling with buying an old eastern bloc jet compared to one designed by a country that thrives on clean lines, speed, and sophistication. What motor did you end up putting in the L39?
_________________ "Find worthy causes in your life."
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Post subject: Re: Help Me Find a Marchetti S211 Posted: 21 Jun 2022, 23:48 |
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Joined: 03/23/08 Posts: 6944 Post Likes: +3601 Company: AssuredPartners Aerospace Phx. Location: KDVT, 46U
Aircraft: IAR823, LrJet, 240Z
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Username Protected wrote: So an L-39 or S-211 look like they could be a lot of fun...... Don't the operating limitations pretty much kill it for anything other than an airshow? IE can I just go fly it for fun, take a friend for a ride, or use it in any way that is kosher with a strict reading of the the operating certificate limits?
I realize that the FSDO's are not enforcing the strict rules, but they are written down and it seems like one is tempting fate to just "nudge nudge wink wink" ignore them?
Now if one had the AB Experimental operations rules they would seem way cooler to me.. Do whatever you want with it. Ok well in the post ADSB-Pandemic maybe skip the local pier and racetrack buzzjobs… but otherwise unrestricted. Tom
_________________ Tom Johnson-Az/Wy AssuredPartners Aerospace Insurance Tj.Johnson@AssuredPartners.com C: 602-628-2701
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Post subject: Re: Help Me Find a Marchetti S211 Posted: 22 Jun 2022, 03:26 |
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Joined: 12/18/12 Posts: 787 Post Likes: +399 Location: Europe
Aircraft: Aerostar 600A
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Username Protected wrote: The ones we have in Tours and Cazaux are getting long in the tooth. They closed the BA 705 Tours last year .
_________________ A&P/IA P35 Aerostar 600A
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Post subject: Re: Help Me Find a Marchetti S211 Posted: 22 Jun 2022, 04:50 |
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Joined: 01/31/12 Posts: 3094 Post Likes: +5447 Company: French major Location: France
Aircraft: Ejet
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Username Protected wrote: The ones we have in Tours and Cazaux are getting long in the tooth. They closed the BA 705 Tours last year .
Yes and thank you for the correction, sorry I meant to say the ones that were flying in Tours at the time. 2 different blocks (unless they were finally updated, I was gone by then). To think they have been replaced by PC21 in Cognac...Except for the PAF of course. The Belgian ones are pretty good too, sold to Top aces if I remember correctly.
_________________ Singham!
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Post subject: Re: Help Me Find a Marchetti S211 Posted: 22 Jun 2022, 06:41 |
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Joined: 08/21/13 Posts: 394 Post Likes: +369 Company: Horizon Aviation
Aircraft: T303, Pitts M12, T-6
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We put the Garrett 731-3 in it. The conversion reduces empty weight substantially, increases fuel efficiency, and increases performance. Rate of climb and speed at altitude in particular.
The 39 was designed and built in Czechoslovakia. A country that suffered dearly under the Nazis and then the Soviets. It continues to be made there to this day. The quality of the workmanship and the design are clearly different than Soviet aircraft. It’s very well engineered with simple systems that are very robust and easy to maintain. We gas it and go flying with almost no unscheduled maintenance. Unlike Western jets, the pilot can pull it out of the hangar alone, hop in, and crank the engine with no ground support. I don’t know if this is the case with the 211 or whether you need a start cart for that aircraft. You don’t for the L-39.
Ops Limits govern your daily operation of the jet. Historically they varied substantially from one FSDO region to another. About 5 years ago, operators and the FAA came up with a set of standardized Ops Limits that are applied to all new applications. Our plane has been in the US for 25 years but we elected to get the new Ops Limits. While we submit an annual letter to the FAA with our intended operations (such as which air shows we’re going to attend), there is a large block of un-detailed hours called proficiency flying. Our geographic limits are the continental US. There are some geographic exclusions but we don’t find them onerous. And we take people flying in it all the time. We just cannot share a single penny of operating expenses. We can’t split fuel. Our passenger cannot take us to lunch in thanks. Nothing. So be it.
So, for the privilege of operating this non-standard category jet warbird around the US, there are indeed some limitations, but we find the trade-off worth it.
Good luck,
Zeke
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Post subject: Re: Help Me Find a Marchetti S211 Posted: 22 Jun 2022, 08:43 |
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Joined: 03/23/08 Posts: 6944 Post Likes: +3601 Company: AssuredPartners Aerospace Phx. Location: KDVT, 46U
Aircraft: IAR823, LrJet, 240Z
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Username Protected wrote: We put the Garrett 731-3 in it. The conversion reduces empty weight substantially, increases fuel efficiency, and increases performance. Rate of climb and speed at altitude in particular.
The 39 was designed and built in Czechoslovakia. A country that suffered dearly under the Nazis and then the Soviets. It continues to be made there to this day. The quality of the workmanship and the design are clearly different than Soviet aircraft. It’s very well engineered with simple systems that are very robust and easy to maintain. We gas it and go flying with almost no unscheduled maintenance. Unlike Western jets, the pilot can pull it out of the hangar alone, hop in, and crank the engine with no ground support. I don’t know if this is the case with the 211 or whether you need a start cart for that aircraft. You don’t for the L-39.
Ops Limits govern your daily operation of the jet. Historically they varied substantially from one FSDO region to another. About 5 years ago, operators and the FAA came up with a set of standardized Ops Limits that are applied to all new applications. Our plane has been in the US for 25 years but we elected to get the new Ops Limits. While we submit an annual letter to the FAA with our intended operations (such as which air shows we’re going to attend), there is a large block of un-detailed hours called proficiency flying. Our geographic limits are the continental US. There are some geographic exclusions but we don’t find them onerous. And we take people flying in it all the time. We just cannot share a single penny of operating expenses. We can’t split fuel. Our passenger cannot take us to lunch in thanks. Nothing. So be it.
So, for the privilege of operating this non-standard category jet warbird around the US, there are indeed some limitations, but we find the trade-off worth it.
Good luck,
Zeke The 211 is also self sufficient starting on battery power. A modest performer, but simple and robust. What’s the weight difference for a 731-39? Sapphire gone? Tom
_________________ Tom Johnson-Az/Wy AssuredPartners Aerospace Insurance Tj.Johnson@AssuredPartners.com C: 602-628-2701
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