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28 Mar 2024, 09:18 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Am I a Weenie, or do I need a new plane?
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2022, 13:38 
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Joined: 11/06/20
Posts: 1276
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Location: Tulsa, OK - KRVS
Aircraft: C501SP
Ha! Gotta love BT. First a reco for an MU-2 and then a reco for a Citation.

PC-12 is definitely the pinnacle of the SETP breed. But you will pay pinnacle pricing for it.

TBM is a nice bird but much smaller than a PC-12.

That being said, I moved from an SR22 to one of Tarver's Citation 501SPs. Could not be happier. While the fuel burn is eye-watering, it is way more stable than the SR22 (my wife hated the bounciness of the SR22) and is very easy to fly. Passengers also love that they can move around during the flight. It's also crazy fast - I regularly fly at 365 TAS in the mid-upper 30's.

Cessna offers a LUMP (Low Utilization Maintenance Program) for <150 hours/year that dramatically increases the major maintenance intervals.

Only downside beyond fuel burn is you will need longer runways (my personal minimum is 5,000' but I'm only ~80 hours in) and a TP is better for contaminated runways.

There is an epic 501SP thread here in this forum if you want to kill a few days....


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 Post subject: Re: Am I a Weenie, or do I need a new plane?
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2022, 13:51 
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Joined: 08/16/15
Posts: 2867
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Location: Ogden UT
Aircraft: Piper M600
Summer thermals suck. But they usually exist below 5-10,000 AGL. The mirage should climb and descend in that band around 1000 feet per minute, so you should be no more than 10 minutes on either end of the flight. If you are routinely flying below 12,000 feet, my next question would be why? There’s almost always smooth air in the high teens and 20s. The meridian does ride a little better in turbulence than the M350. One due to higher wing loading, two, due to a 300 lb gyro up front turning 36,000 RPM. It also climbs through the turbulence faster The M600 rides better than them all. The PA 46 wing is made to fly in thin air, thermals are not its strong suit. But I didn’t think it was any better or worse than the SR22.

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Chuck Ivester
Piper M600
Ogden UT


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 Post subject: Re: Am I a Weenie, or do I need a new plane?
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2022, 13:51 
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Joined: 12/19/11
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Company: Bottom Line Experts
Location: KTOL - Toledo, OH
Aircraft: 2004 SR22 G2
Joe, do you use Foreflight? Their turbulence layer is exceptionally helpful and works VERY well for identifying the route / altitude for the smoothest flight. If ride comfort is your #1 priority on a given flight, I would utilize the FF turb layers to plan and avoid anything more that light turb whenever possible.

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Don Coburn
Corporate Expense Reduction Specialist
2004 SR22 G2


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 Post subject: Re: Am I a Weenie, or do I need a new plane?
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2022, 13:53 
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Joined: 12/19/11
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Company: Bottom Line Experts
Location: KTOL - Toledo, OH
Aircraft: 2004 SR22 G2
Here's a flight right now from Cleveland to Memphis at 18K vs. 10K. The Malibu prefers 18K but a much smoother ride can be had at 10K.


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Don Coburn
Corporate Expense Reduction Specialist
2004 SR22 G2


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 Post subject: Re: Am I a Weenie, or do I need a new plane?
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2022, 14:13 
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Joined: 11/20/14
Posts: 6451
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Aircraft: V35
I've never had pressurization or jet fuel in the budget, but for family trips it has not been to difficult to schedule morning departures for 80%+ of the flights, and the smooth morning air works for any size of airplane. In the summer the cooler temperatures are equally appreciated by the passengers.


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 Post subject: Re: Am I a Weenie, or do I need a new plane?
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2022, 14:17 
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Joined: 01/05/11
Posts: 314
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Aircraft: 1969 Aerostar 600,
You're a Weenie.


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 Post subject: Re: Am I a Weenie, or do I need a new plane?
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2022, 14:29 
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Joined: 09/12/19
Posts: 16
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Aircraft: PA46 Mirage
Username Protected wrote:
You're a Weenie.



This. And I know it.

Seriously, good feedback all around. I do try to avoid the bumps when I can, especially with passengers, but not always avoidable - especially with afternoon flights. Just trying to understand if one particular airframe is better than the others and should that honestly factor into the decisions. I know for my wife it does.

By the way, I know this is a Beech thread talking about Pipers and such, but we're on the second page and nobody has suggested an Avanti. :clap:


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 Post subject: Re: Am I a Weenie, or do I need a new plane?
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2022, 14:36 
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Joined: 10/31/14
Posts: 534
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Aircraft: eclipse
Joe
This is one of the reasons that I love my Eclipse.

Jet altitude and speed without the crazy fuel burns.

My experience is very few bumps in the high 30's

And a wing loading of 41 lb/sqft

I would also guess that the long wingspan of the Meridian adds to the bumps.


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 Post subject: Re: Am I a Weenie, or do I need a new plane?
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2022, 14:55 
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Joined: 05/09/18
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Location: Tucson, AZ
Aircraft: 1980 TR182
Username Protected wrote:
One due to higher wing loading, two, due to a 300 lb gyro up front turning 36,000 RPM.


Interesting. Don't know that I've ever heard that one before.

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Stan Kartchner
Tucson, AZ (KRYN]


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 Post subject: Re: Am I a Weenie, or do I need a new plane?
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2022, 16:01 
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Joined: 08/29/13
Posts: 24
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Location: KSEP
Username Protected wrote:
what's the wing loading on a 58 vs a36

A36 - 19.9
58 - 27.6

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Brandon Greenhaw

KSEP


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 Post subject: Re: Am I a Weenie, or do I need a new plane?
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2022, 17:47 
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Joined: 10/05/09
Posts: 286
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Location: Portland, Oregon
Aircraft: MU-2F
MU-2 55.7psf. My F model does 260KTAS on 58gph at FL250. My wife who never really liked flying much now actually looks forward to it since I bought the MU-2. What is this turbulence you speak of?? :D


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 Post subject: Re: Am I a Weenie, or do I need a new plane?
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2022, 18:57 
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Joined: 07/14/17
Posts: 373
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Company: Finch Industries,Inc.
Location: Thomasville,NC
Aircraft: TBM900,M600
My Malibu and M350 were not very comfortable in moderate chop but the wing on the M600 is totally different and it is very comfortable in moderate chop.On one flight at FL280 the commercial guys above were really complaining and one at 340 said severe turbulence and I was in rough air but it was not severe in my estimation.


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 Post subject: Re: Am I a Weenie, or do I need a new plane?
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2022, 20:37 
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Joined: 06/23/09
Posts: 2299
Post Likes: +707
Location: KIKK......Kankakee, Illinois
Aircraft: TBM 850
In general I thought turbulence this entire spring was bumpier than in the past few years.
Seems like the atmosphere has just been more unstable.


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 Post subject: Re: Am I a Weenie, or do I need a new plane?
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2022, 21:26 
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Joined: 01/30/09
Posts: 3343
Post Likes: +1948
Location: $ilicon Vall€y
Aircraft: Columbia 400
Columbia 400 wing loading: 25.5

:D

It slices and dices pretty darn good.


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 Post subject: Re: Am I a Weenie, or do I need a new plane?
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2022, 22:19 
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Joined: 10/18/11
Posts: 1026
Post Likes: +584
Aircraft: Seabee Aerostar 700
in general twins allow a higher wing loading and thus are smoother. (certification regs for a single engine require a lower stall speed.) I agree the Aerostar is the ticket very fast and as the passengers sit on the spar basically they are smoother than some other twins.

the TBM with flaps up etc has a higher wing loading and thus should be a lot better.

pressurization really helps as things seem to be much smoother above 12 generally


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