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28 Mar 2024, 17:50 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Am I a Weenie, or do I need a new plane?
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2022, 22:40 
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Joined: 08/20/09
Posts: 2394
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Company: Jcrane, Inc.
Location: KVES Greenville, OH
Aircraft: C441, RV7A
Here's a spreadsheet I put together a few years ago on various aircraft, one of the columns shows wing loading.

We had a 206 for a while, that was a miserable cross-country aircraft in turbulence, puke bags required.


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 Post subject: Re: Am I a Weenie, or do I need a new plane?
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2022, 23:09 
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Joined: 09/12/19
Posts: 16
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Aircraft: PA46 Mirage
Username Protected wrote:
Here's a spreadsheet I put together a few years ago on various aircraft, one of the columns shows wing loading.

We had a 206 for a while, that was a miserable cross-country aircraft in turbulence, puke bags required.



Great spreadsheet Jack! Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Am I a Weenie, or do I need a new plane?
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2022, 23:38 
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Joined: 08/16/10
Posts: 1177
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Location: Prescott, AZ
Aircraft: A36
Nice spreadsheet, but I think you might have a typo on the G36 length.


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 Post subject: Re: Am I a Weenie, or do I need a new plane?
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2022, 00:38 
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Joined: 03/03/11
Posts: 1845
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Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
Owned a Malibu and flew all throughout country and was based in Denver. Never thought it was that bad in turbulence but I always flew high. Not a plane for below 12k feet - it’s slow down there too.

MU2 ride is the best small plane j have ever flown in. Significantly better than all other TPs and jets though Piaggio is pretty close second.

Pc12, especially when light, is worse than Malibu imho.

I think flight planning plays a bigger role than anything. Time is day etc. Altitude a big deal - I have always found FL200 to FL250 the smoothest altitudes. Tried to keep PA46 there as much as possible!


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 Post subject: Re: Am I a Weenie, or do I need a new plane?
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2022, 07:23 
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Joined: 01/23/18
Posts: 611
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Aircraft: Aerostar
You and your wife need to take a ride in an Aerostar.

Pressurized

Approximately the same cabin dimensions as your Mirage.

Relatively high wing loading for a smooth ride.

Let me know when you are going to be in Virginia, if I can make my schedule work (new job), we can run up to Cambridge for breakfast.

:bud:


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 Post subject: Re: Am I a Weenie, or do I need a new plane?
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2022, 07:53 
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Company: Jcrane, Inc.
Location: KVES Greenville, OH
Aircraft: C441, RV7A
Username Protected wrote:
Nice spreadsheet, but I think you might have a typo on the G36 length.

Fixed. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Am I a Weenie, or do I need a new plane?
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2022, 09:13 
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Joined: 09/05/09
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Location: Small Town, NC
You didn’t mention your capital limits.
TBM has a pretty good ride in rough air, but it’s strong suit is the ability to quickly climb into smooth air. It is an incredibly solid airplane, but if yaw damper is off, it does have a tendency to dutch role, which is miserable for the rear two seats. Luckily, the yaw damper should never be off.

My 340 also had a very solid feel in rough air. Not as good of a climber. The larger twin Cessna‘s are pretty solid airplanes.

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 Post subject: Re: Am I a Weenie, or do I need a new plane?
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2022, 09:33 
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Joined: 01/20/15
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Location: St. Augustine, Florida
Aircraft: Cessna Cardinal 177B
Username Protected wrote:
Columbia 400 wing loading: 25.5

:D

It slices and dices pretty darn good.


This topic reminded me that I flew my buddy's Columbia 350 a couple months ago. What struck me about the bumps was that they felt more solid compared to my riveted metal planes. It was analogous to driving a racing go kart compared to a car with suspension. Maybe the flexing of the metal wings seems to absorb the sharp bumps whereas in the Columbia it felt like the structure was so stiff that the whole airplane just rose or fell with the bumps.

Don't get me wrong - the Columbia is a freakin' awesome airplane! I'm sure I left drool all over the seat as I got out. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Am I a Weenie, or do I need a new plane?
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2022, 09:43 
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Joined: 05/13/14
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Location: Central Texas (KTPL)
Aircraft: PA-46-310P
Username Protected wrote:
You and your wife need to take a ride in an Aerostar.
It's probably in the very long A* thread, but over several years, what are you averaging for an annual inspection including repairs?


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 Post subject: Re: Am I a Weenie, or do I need a new plane?
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2022, 10:00 
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Joined: 01/23/18
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Username Protected wrote:
You and your wife need to take a ride in an Aerostar.
It's probably in the very long A* thread, but over several years, what are you averaging for an annual inspection including repairs?


I’m not sure whether this is an exercise in leg pulling or a serious question…
:scratch:

Rough numbers all in:

“750.00/HR plus gas”

:shrug:

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 Post subject: Re: Am I a Weenie, or do I need a new plane?
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2022, 10:03 
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Joined: 08/12/08
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Company: Retired
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Aircraft: '76 A36 TAT TN 550
Username Protected wrote:
Had an SR22T, and thought it handled turbulence pretty well for a small plane. Earlier this year, purchased a Mirage and have about 100 hours or so on it, and boy does it bounce. I've been in what I thought would not have been that bad of turbulence in the Cirrus, and the Mirage just feels like a kite. I knew going in that the PA46 was not as "solid" feeling, but I was surprised.

The wing loadings posted are most likely calculated at max GW.

Have you been flying your Mirage at weights significantly below gross?

If the figures posted are accurate the Malibu/Mirage have a higher wing loading than my A36. But I *always* fly with full tanks when I expect turbulence.

I also slow down as it really smooths out the bumps.

I also look for a smooth ride even if that means a greater headwind.

I find that getting bounced around for a few hours can be fatiguing, but I can fly all day if the ride is smooth.

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 Post subject: Re: Am I a Weenie, or do I need a new plane?
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2022, 10:06 
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Joined: 08/24/18
Posts: 492
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Location: New Jersey, KVAY
Aircraft: Citabria
how much does wing flex factor into this? My only experience is a wood vs metal spar citabria. The wood wing flexes more I thought had significantly better ride than the stiffer metal spar wing. Does the composite wing on the Cirrus flex more in rough air?
Mark


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 Post subject: Re: Am I a Weenie, or do I need a new plane?
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2022, 10:19 
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Joined: 05/13/14
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Location: Central Texas (KTPL)
Aircraft: PA-46-310P
Username Protected wrote:
I’m not sure whether this is an exercise in leg pulling or a serious question…
Serious question. Gas prices have blunted my interest in the A*, but the speed and pressurization still beckon...

I feel the same way about the Malibu, but the portly wingspan and general lack of inventory keep me on the sidelines.


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 Post subject: Re: Am I a Weenie, or do I need a new plane?
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2022, 14:19 
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Joined: 02/27/08
Posts: 3167
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Location: Galveston, TX
Aircraft: Malibu PA46-310P
I have had a Malibu for four years and don't have an issue with turbulence. My wife thinks it rides much better than the V35B we had. Mainly because we ALWAYS fly high when we can. On a 300 mile flight we will be at least 16,000 feet. Any flight longer than that it is FL 220 or 230. I installed the GFC600 and didn't install a yaw damper, mainly because my wife (who always sits in the very back) said it didn't need it. She always complained about the V35 wiggle.
Kevin


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 Post subject: Re: Am I a Weenie, or do I need a new plane?
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2022, 22:32 
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Joined: 10/24/19
Posts: 131
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Location: Central NY, (N03)
Aircraft: 421C
Joe,

I don’t know if you’ve considered or not but, according to Jack’s spreadsheet - the 421C has a wing loading of 34.7. This might be the “in-between” that you’re looking for. Your wife, (and others), will love the cabin and the smooth, quiet ride that we’ve been enjoying for the past couple of years. I know that all of mine are spoiled now and it would be difficult going back to single engine and unpressurized. Hopefully, Bidenomics doesn’t force us to..

John


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