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28 Mar 2024, 12:31 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: What’s my mission?
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2022, 00:20 
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Joined: 08/23/16
Posts: 5
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Aircraft: C185
Hi there,

I’ve been an avid reader of all corners of Beechtalk and have been very thankful for the insight and experience found here.

I am in a bit of a unique situation. I live in northern Canada- CYFB Iqaluit- which some of you transatlantic types may be familiar with. It is on Baffin Island, in the Canadian Arctic, with a nice runway a few commercial operators based on the field but there have been no piston aircraft based here since I sold my 185 about 18 years ago. At that time I had a commercial operation with a Twin Otter or two and an AMO, so maintenance wasn’t really a concern.

After I drove my airline into the ground (thankfully not literally) I have bounced around in aviation working for other airlines that operate in the Canadian arctic in non-flying capacities. But having started flying when I was 14 I miss flying and am finally in a situation where I might be able to afford something in the $100k USD range. I am a current private pilot with a not-too-out of date instrument rating.

In general terms, my mission is to fly an airplane fairly regularly.

As I get close to 50 with five kids, however, my risk threshold has changed. I have this romantic idea of heading back out to some of the amazing offstrip sites that dot the southern half of Baffin Island. We live in a mountainous area, with stunning scenery and great fishing and hunting opportunities. The last time I flew into my favourite spot - Allen Island- I had to do a 10 nm pattern to overfly the field and stay in the fjords and I saw polar bears, beluga whales, Orca, walrus and caribou on the approach.

But without someone obvious to do my maintenance work here and Twin Otter charter rates higher than $15/mile to come pick me up when I do something silly or something breaks it feels riskier than I could handle. I did a back of the napkin cost for a rescue mission at Allen Island- about 120 nm away and between the two charters, flying in an engineer from the south, labour and other miscellaneous expenses I got to $10k really, really quickly.

We also only have drummed fuel and then next community with avgas is just under 400 nm away. On the plus side, all of the communities in Nunavut have 92 octane, non-ethanol fuel- that’s standard for our auto gas needs in cold weather.

A couple of months back I was in Anchorage and a friend showed me their mid-1960s 182 with big wheels and I just kind of fell in love. The 1000’ strips that are in such beautiful spots around here wouldn’t be a problem for an aircraft like that and they’re pretty bulletproof- but would an older 182 be bulletproof enough to plan on utilizing without a regular AME? (I think that one or two of the rotational AMEs for turbine operators may be able to do some work while they are up here).

West of here- on Hudson Bay- there are a few folks who have 180s/185s that they fly up for the summer and bring back south for the winter (700 nm south). That might be doable - I’m about 1200 nm from Ottawa.

My other option would be to look at an aircraft that I could base down south in Ottawa, where I end up for work a couple of times a month. I really enjoy IFR flying and there are some nice short body Mooneys in my price range. Wouldn’t have the most immediate access to the aircraft but in terms of risk and cost, it would likely be an interesting option.

I’d kill for a Debonair, but anything in that price range scares me a bit because of the recent spike in pricing. I wouldn’t have the time to tinker too much - no matter how beautiful the machine. I’ve looked at renting and the scheduling when I have holidays has made it really difficult to stay current. If it is a “down south” machine, I’d need to utilize my many short windows to go flying, so it would have to be something that was fairly reliable.

Realistically, with weather and potential waiting time for maintenance up here, I’d likely do the same amount of flying per year. Both options would be fun. One option is super cool.

As I write this I’m realizing that I’m not necessarily looking for specific advice about the two options, but I just read a thread where the point was repeatedly made that the flying we do isn’t always rational. The mission is important, but I get the feeling that many of you have the same mission I do: to fly. How did you narrow down your choice of aircraft, especially if cost is a factor?

Just want to also extend an offer to anyone in this community that is passing through Iqaluit to drop me a line. I was sitting in a really boring meeting today by the airport and heard the unusual sound of a piston aircraft taking off, looked up and it was a beautiful V-tail Bonanza blasting off- I’m assuming it was heading towards Europe with a stop in Greenland. It really focussed the mind and made me want to post this tonight. If you need any information, or anything while you’re here, let me know!

Thanks in advance. Here are some pics of some of the fun spots I used to visit in the 185.

Jimi O


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 Post subject: Re: What’s my mission?
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2022, 06:17 
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Joined: 05/09/15
Posts: 295
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Location: New York, NY
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Hell of a first post! Welcome. Whatever you do end up doing, please keep us posted and send pictures.

What’s the hangar situation there? How rough is it if you have to keep the plane outside in the colder months?

The 185 you had sounded just about perfect. No expert, but I would think maintenance on a 182 wouldn’t be that much different than on a 185.

Ken


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 Post subject: Re: What’s my mission?
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2022, 07:54 
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Joined: 07/13/09
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Location: Nirvana
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Username Protected wrote:
Hell of a first post! Welcome. Whatever you do end up doing, please keep us posted and send pictures.


Ken



Agreed!

Sounds like some interesting flying....



stan

_________________
"Most of my money I spent on airplanes. The rest I just wasted....."
---the EFI, POF-----


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 Post subject: Re: What’s my mission?
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2022, 09:31 
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Joined: 10/18/11
Posts: 1026
Post Likes: +584
Aircraft: Seabee Aerostar 700
wonderful thread. it sounds like you should have something that runs on locally available fuel and is very simple. living in Canada you can put an aircraft into experimental owner maintained status. so if you are handy you can do your own maintenance. the problem is you can't fly that aircraft into the US without getting it inspected and put back into normal category. I do not know how big a deal it is.

the low compression 182 or other aircraft that can run on auto fuel seems to be high up on the list.

a tricycle gear 182 could also be useful locally for your kids to learn to fly in or other activities that might help fund the obsession.

I would not be surprised if some of the pilots that fly for the local companies are also an CFI and would be happy to teach in an 182

I find if it can be justified for the good of the kids, it is easy to justify.


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 Post subject: Re: What’s my mission?
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2022, 18:33 
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Joined: 10/06/16
Posts: 114
Post Likes: +182
Location: Tucson, AZ (winter) & Brunswick, ME (summer)
Aircraft: T210, Aerostar 702P
I love the simplicity of your mission statement: "I just want to fly" seems as valid as any more elaborate version, but that's just me.

Presumably like you'd want a machine that can use either the unleaded gas available there, or Jet-A. Sufficient useful load to carry a substantial survival kit, maybe a folding kayak? Definitely some soft-field capability. Gosh, a Caravan is expensive, but hits all the buttons. Can a 180/185 run on the locally-available unleaded fuel?

What a great "problem" to have.

Best to you,
Mark


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 Post subject: Re: What’s my mission?
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2022, 19:17 
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Joined: 05/29/14
Posts: 2879
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Location: CEA3
Aircraft: PA24-260, C340 Ram 7
Hi Jimi,

Awesome post!
Your in the eastern arctic from where I visit (Whitehorse Yellowknife, been as high up as Inuvik).

I suspect you’re referring to the “Sell it all thread”, and I have the same recommendation for you. A properly fitted out C182 will fit your mission, I think.

You said you had an AMO, did you pull wrenches then?
Keeping water out of the fuel, spare plugs and a mag should be in your ballpark to fix!
Also if it’s a Continental, get the alternator mod done so there’s no more rubber coupling!

Keep us informed!

Murray


Last edited on 16 Jun 2022, 19:48, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What’s my mission?
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2022, 19:42 
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Joined: 08/23/16
Posts: 5
Post Likes: +11
Aircraft: C185
Username Protected wrote:
Hell of a first post! Welcome. Whatever you do end up doing, please keep us posted and send pictures.

What’s the hangar situation there? How rough is it if you have to keep the plane outside in the colder months?

The 185 you had sounded just about perfect. No expert, but I would think maintenance on a 182 wouldn’t be that much different than on a 185.

Ken


Thanks so much! Will definitely post updates. With rumblings about the market softening might just see how the next few months shake out price wise.

There are a couple of options here for non-heated hangars- with the ability to rent heated hangar space for inspections and other maintenance.

We get close to 100 kt winds two or three times a year and that would likely be a must, especially if based here over the winter.

Thanks again for the reply!


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 Post subject: Re: What’s my mission?
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2022, 19:49 
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Joined: 08/23/16
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Aircraft: C185
Username Protected wrote:
wonderful thread. it sounds like you should have something that runs on locally available fuel and is very simple. living in Canada you can put an aircraft into experimental owner maintained status. so if you are handy you can do your own maintenance. the problem is you can't fly that aircraft into the US without getting it inspected and put back into normal category. I do not know how big a deal it is.

the low compression 182 or other aircraft that can run on auto fuel seems to be high up on the list.

a tricycle gear 182 could also be useful locally for your kids to learn to fly in or other activities that might help fund the obsession.

I would not be surprised if some of the pilots that fly for the local companies are also an CFI and would be happy to teach in an 182

I find if it can be justified for the good of the kids, it is easy to justify.


Thanks Bill for the reply. I’ve thought about the owner maintenance route but considering the conditions here I’d feel better having someone experienced doing the work- with my help.

I think that the 182 would definitely check the boxes - and your suggestion on flight training is a really good one. There would be a lot of interest among kids here- with no roads and being ice free only four months of the year, literally everything here is flown in.

I was just at my sons soccer game tonight and one of the other dad just asked me about how they could get their license.

It hadn’t really occurred to me- thanks so much for that!


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 Post subject: Re: What’s my mission?
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2022, 20:20 
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Joined: 08/23/16
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Aircraft: C185
Username Protected wrote:
Hi Jimi,

Awesome post!
Your in the eastern arctic from where I visit (Whitehorse Yellowknife, been as high up as Inuvik).

I suspect you’re referring to the “Sell it all thread”, and I have the same recommendation for you. A properly fitted out C182 will fit your mission, I think.

You said you had an AMO, did you pull wrenches then?
Keeping water out of the fuel, spare plugs and a mag should be in your ballpark to fix!
Also if it’s a Continental, get the alternator mod done so there’s no more rubber coupling!

Keep us informed!

Murray


Thanks Murray- you’re lucky to have spent time over there- the flying out west is amazing. I started my private license in Yellowknife a million years ago and the company would 15 year old, no facial hair me pretend to be a pilot for their government two crew required charters. :D That valley flight is so amazing.

I have no maintenance experience. I am not the most handy person in the world. My AMO was tied to the airline- I’ve helped take skis on and off, changed tires and opened up inspection panels. But I was lucky to have extremely patient as well experienced engineers who always found nice ways to suggest that I stick to flying.

Next time you’re heading up north, take a right turn and come by for a visit.


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 Post subject: Re: What’s my mission?
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2022, 20:40 
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Joined: 11/08/12
Posts: 12797
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Location: Jackson, MS (KHKS)
Aircraft: 1961 Cessna 172
182 that will run mogas is about as simple as it gets.

Might i suggest a cessna 150 and a cessna 182 so you have less than $15/mile rescue plane? You could probably make it earn its keep with $1/km operating expenses.


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 Post subject: Re: What’s my mission?
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2022, 20:48 
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Joined: 12/01/13
Posts: 825
Post Likes: +821
Location: Airdrie, AB
Aircraft: Cessna A185F
I’d say a Cessna 180. Pick one with no engine mods that preclude operation with mogas. Getting 100LL brought in will be a nuisance.

Cessna 180 gives you the option of skis. Spring flying on skis when the temperatures moderate will add a lot to your season.

A Cessna 170 could also be good. Less payload. Fewer passengers to share the fuel expense with!

If there’ll be no ski flying, then the 182 with big wheels might be alright.

The Cessnas can fly south and tour Ontario. The Mooney can’t fly north and do the off airport trips that the Cessnas can. Cessna wins.

A Maule can do what the Cessnas do at a lower purchase price. Probably just as durable in your climate. Other than wind and snow load, the north’s environment is pretty easy on equipment. Less corrosion given the long winters, and less heat/sunlight damage.

None of these are good trainers. If this is to be a community airplane then Cessna 172 wins. A guy in Dawson City YT operates one as an air taxi. He has extended range tanks and aux tanks. Can fly to Old Crow and back with solid reserves.


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 Post subject: Re: What’s my mission?
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2022, 22:05 
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Joined: 08/23/16
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Aircraft: C185
Username Protected wrote:
I’d say a Cessna 180. Pick one with no engine mods that preclude operation with mogas. Getting 100LL brought in will be a nuisance.

Cessna 180 gives you the option of skis. Spring flying on skis when the temperatures moderate will add a lot to your season.

A Cessna 170 could also be good. Less payload. Fewer passengers to share the fuel expense with!

If there’ll be no ski flying, then the 182 with big wheels might be alright.

The Cessnas can fly south and tour Ontario. The Mooney can’t fly north and do the off airport trips that the Cessnas can. Cessna wins.

A Maule can do what the Cessnas do at a lower purchase price. Probably just as durable in your climate. Other than wind and snow load, the north’s environment is pretty easy on equipment. Less corrosion given the long winters, and less heat/sunlight damage.

None of these are good trainers. If this is to be a community airplane then Cessna 172 wins. A guy in Dawson City YT operates one as an air taxi. He has extended range tanks and aux tanks. Can fly to Old Crow and back with solid reserves.


This makes a lot of sense- thank you.

I haven’t seen many solid looking 180’s in that price range- and I think that I could live without the skis- an older 182 on big wheels would get what I want up here in the spring/summer and would also work in the south. Starting with a basic VFR 182 would suit my immediate need but over time could move to an IFR panel.

I don’t often see Maules coming up for sale in Canada- and I hear that there are often issues importing them because of mods that are approved in the US but not in Canada. I don’t know that first hand, though. My buddy had a lot of issues importing his 185 a few years back.

Thanks so much for this.


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 Post subject: Re: What’s my mission?
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2022, 00:46 
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Joined: 01/23/13
Posts: 8012
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Company: Kokotele Guitar Works
Location: Albany, NY
Aircraft: C-182RG, C-172, PA28
The 180/182/185 series saw one of the biggest price jumps in recent years. I'm not sure there's one available for less than $100k that isn't a money pit.

If you just want to fly, then does it matter how fast (or slow) you do it? What about a Piper Pacer or PA-12? Those are real values in the market. They don't have the cachet of the Cessna, but they will both be cheap to maintain and can land just about anywhere you want to. Plus, you could buy two for your budget.

A Maule is kind of a next gen PA-20 and I don't think they went up as much as Cessnas did.


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 Post subject: Re: What’s my mission?
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2022, 06:31 
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Joined: 11/08/12
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Location: Jackson, MS (KHKS)
Aircraft: 1961 Cessna 172
First rule here is don’t look for a working airplane because businesses bid them up. Tail draggers that haul a load are high on that list

The pacer/tripacer idea is excellent


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