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 Post subject: Re: Can used turbine aircraft prices get any crazier?
PostPosted: 21 Nov 2022, 13:51 
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Joined: 12/18/12
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I think Chip has a point that Carter-era airframes are retiring faster than they can be replaced.


THIS .

This is , IMHO, the REAL REASON used prices have soared and it's happening 'cause there's not enough qualified manpower + shortages of parts , etc., etc , to fix'm up.

Add to that the ensuing inflation, as well as horrific back-log to get anything done, and it all adds up to a lot of airframes going into retirement .

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 Post subject: Re: Can used turbine aircraft prices get any crazier?
PostPosted: 22 Nov 2022, 15:09 
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Joined: 01/16/10
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Username Protected wrote:
I think Chip has a point that Carter-era airframes are retiring faster than they can be replaced.


THIS .

This is , IMHO, the REAL REASON used prices have soared and it's happening 'cause there's not enough qualified manpower + shortages of parts , etc., etc , to fix'm up.

Add to that the ensuing inflation, as well as horrific back-log to get anything done, and it all adds up to a lot of airframes going into retirement .


To me, it seems like airframe maintenance demand is pretty steady whether new or old? Yes, old can have surprises, but they all require inspections and time limited parts? I do think some are questioning losing an aircraft for a year, waiting on an engine or doing and avionics upgrade. For a little more, they may be thinking, I could be flying tomorrow in newer aircraft with all the upgrades ready to go.

I do agree; Carter and Reagan airframes disappearing and not enough replacement. Unless you have lots of cash, banks are hesitant to lend on heavier iron that is old. I think my bank is 15 years on helicopters, 20-25 on jets and 25 on turboprops. The way they see it, if they do a 15–20 year note, that will put them on the hook for an almost half century old aircraft. How many cars are we driving that are that old on a daily basis?

The other big thing I picked up on with my bank, is type of aircraft. It seems that CJ's and Phenom's are a lot easier to finance and a better rate than for example a HondaJet. At the end of the day, they want to know they can get all their money back quickly if life goes sideways.
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 Post subject: Re: Can used turbine aircraft prices get any crazier?
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2022, 22:41 
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While not in the market for a turbine myself, I am hopeful that M350, and 185 on amphibs prices drop dramatically in the next year.
While an M600 sounds great, it needs a bit more runway than a M350, and for me that is a deal breaker.

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 Post subject: Re: Can used turbine aircraft prices get any crazier?
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2022, 22:48 
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Joined: 11/25/11
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Buyers are financing airplanes for 25 years? :bugeye:

Then, I CAN afford a Gulfstream :drool:

:D

Jg

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 Post subject: Re: Can used turbine aircraft prices get any crazier?
PostPosted: 01 Dec 2022, 02:13 
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Username Protected wrote:
Buyers are financing airplanes for 25 years? :bugeye:

Then, I CAN afford a Gulfstream :drool:

:D

Jg



Ridiculous as it sounds, yes some are.

If I cannot afford to buy it, I would not own it.

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 Post subject: Re: Can used turbine aircraft prices get any crazier?
PostPosted: 02 Dec 2022, 22:24 
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Username Protected wrote:
While not in the market for a turbine myself, I am hopeful that M350, and 185 on amphibs prices drop dramatically in the next year.
While an M600 sounds great, it needs a bit more runway than a M350, and for me that is a deal breaker.


M600 only needs more runway when you take off with full fuel. The M600 has extremely long legs. Put in fuel and load for a typical 500 mile trip and there is little difference.


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 Post subject: Re: Can used turbine aircraft prices get any crazier?
PostPosted: 02 Dec 2022, 22:24 
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Joined: 08/03/20
Posts: 42
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Aircraft: Citation Mustang
Username Protected wrote:
While not in the market for a turbine myself, I am hopeful that M350, and 185 on amphibs prices drop dramatically in the next year.
While an M600 sounds great, it needs a bit more runway than a M350, and for me that is a deal breaker.


M600 only needs more runway when you take off with full fuel. The M600 has extremely long legs. Put in fuel and load for a typical 500 mile trip and there is little difference.


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 Post subject: Re: Can used turbine aircraft prices get any crazier?
PostPosted: 02 Dec 2022, 23:10 
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Joined: 08/16/15
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Another thing about the M600. It was certified with the 4 blade paddle prop, but most are equipped with the 5-blade Hartzell. Hartzell claims 20% better take off performance, but they did not change the performance tables, since it was the same or better, no need to rewrite the tables. I haven’t taken a tape measure out there, but plenty of hours in all the PA46 variants. The M600 has a very authoritative take off roll. Can’t imagine a runway that I would do in an M350 that I wouldn’t do in an M600. But would certainly reference the performance charts.

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