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 Post subject: Nosewheel tube failures
PostPosted: 16 May 2022, 13:20 
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Joined: 12/04/11
Posts: 114
Post Likes: +42
Company: Cinema sixteen inc.
Aircraft: V35
I just had my fourth nosewheel tube failure in about 1000 hours of flying my current aircraft.
The weird thing is that when we remove the tube and inflate it there’s no sign of a leak.
Every time!
OK it’s an Aerostar…….. but a nosewheel is a nosewheel 600x6.
One failed on rollout and it destroyed the tire. In all other cases I’ve just come back from a few days of a visit to find the nosewheel tire flat. I’m not going to just blow it up and lose gas in the air only to land with a flat. So I have to replace the tube.
This last time we had a serious issue to deal with as there were no jacks on the field and no mechanics working on a Sunday. We finally winched the tail down with a come-along and managed to change out the tube but it was an odyssey that took almost all day.
The valve was good and capped, as always
We’ve concluded it simply must be “an act of God”!.
Unless anyone else can explain what’s happening.

George


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 Post subject: Re: Nosewheel tube failures
PostPosted: 16 May 2022, 13:40 
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Joined: 04/06/11
Posts: 7894
Post Likes: +3908
Aircraft: Warbirds
When you say you can re inflate the tube after removal have you dunked the inflated tube in a bucket of water looking for bubbles?
Check tire pressures each preflight?

I've had tube issues over the last 20 years with T-6 and P-51 27SC main tubes.

Aero Cassic would put an insp sticker inside the tire casing. Over time the glue of the sticker would seep out and do 2 things, 1- attack the tube rubber softening it, 2- Glue would stick the tube and tire together in that spot so normal flexing is changed at that spot. Ultimately the tube will fail at that spot.

Other issues I've experienced was a weird deal where the cap that screwed onto the stem would touch the insert creating a leak. Another was a stem to long that would hit on each rotation on the yoke. This was a tailwheel and someone had removed the cap on the stem so it would'nt hit as bad. You would hear a psst as you rotated the tire.

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 Post subject: Re: Nosewheel tube failures
PostPosted: 16 May 2022, 15:45 
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Joined: 02/09/09
Posts: 5547
Post Likes: +2503
Location: Owosso, MI (KRNP)
Aircraft: 1969 Bonanza V35A
What brand of tube?

I went through a slew of the LeakGuard tubes that A/C Spruce sells before I stopped buying then and putting on customer and my aircraft. The failures stopped immediately when I bought Michelin or Goodyear tubes.


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 Post subject: Re: Nosewheel tube failures
PostPosted: 16 May 2022, 16:14 
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Joined: 06/15/12
Posts: 799
Post Likes: +895
Location: KIWA
Aircraft: Debonair 35 - B33
I dust all my inner tubes with baby powder before they are installed. This prevents the tube sticking to the tire and tearing.


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 Post subject: Re: Nosewheel tube failures
PostPosted: 16 May 2022, 17:20 
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Joined: 03/24/19
Posts: 1230
Post Likes: +1662
Location: Ontario, Canada
Aircraft: Glasair Sportsman
Username Protected wrote:
I dust all my inner tubes with baby powder before they are installed. This prevents the tube sticking to the tire and tearing.

Be aware that baby powder is no longer talcum-based. Johnson & Johnson got their tales sued off and were forced to change their product to a corn starch base.

For airplane tires talc is good, corn starch is not good. Best to double-check one's stock.

(I raided every medicine cabinet in my family to get the last of the talc-based baby powder. Everybody thought I was nuts but I now have a big container of it, enough for lots of tire changes, and all my relatives have new containers of the starch-based product in return.)


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 Post subject: Re: Nosewheel tube failures
PostPosted: 16 May 2022, 17:34 
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Joined: 07/22/14
Posts: 9191
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Company: Mountain Airframe LLC
Location: Mena, Arkansas
Username Protected wrote:
I dust all my inner tubes with baby powder before they are installed. This prevents the tube sticking to the tire and tearing.

Be aware that baby powder is no longer talcum-based. Johnson & Johnson got their tales sued off and were forced to change their product to a corn starch base.

For airplane tires talc is good, corn starch is not good. Best to double-check one's stock.

(I raided every medicine cabinet in my family to get the last of the talc-based baby powder. Everybody thought I was nuts but I now have a big container of it, enough for lots of tire changes, and all my relatives have new containers of the starch-based product in return.)

This talc baby hadn’t heard of this yet. Guess I’ll check my stash

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 Post subject: Re: Nosewheel tube failures
PostPosted: 16 May 2022, 17:40 
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Joined: 03/17/08
Posts: 6052
Post Likes: +12331
Location: KMCW
Aircraft: B55 PII,F-1,L-2,OTW,
My Rocket is very sensitive to low tire pressure. And that leads to a small 1/8" tear in the sat about the 10/2 o'clock position of the cross section of the tube. Because of that I use the no-leak tubes and I have had good success with them over the traditional ones that leaked and ended up low because pulling the wheel pants to check or add air is a PITA. But so is a flat tire on the road. No one ever accused me of being the quickest learner.

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Doug Rozendaal
MCW
Be Nice, Kind, I don't care, be something, just don't be a jerk ;-)


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 Post subject: Re: Nosewheel tube failures
PostPosted: 16 May 2022, 17:55 
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Joined: 01/23/13
Posts: 8010
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Company: Kokotele Guitar Works
Location: Albany, NY
Aircraft: C-182RG, C-172, PA28
George, you said 1000 hours, but over what time frame? That 6.00x6 tire on your nose carries a lot more weight than the main gear on a 172 that also uses that tire. More weight equals more stress and heat, which equals shorter lifespan.

Our planes each fly around 400 hours a year, and we've switched to changing the tubes every 18 months to avoid flats. 24 months was too long. It's been cheaper to do this than to pay for repairs at remote airports.

Username Protected wrote:
This talc baby hadn’t heard of this yet. Guess I’ll check my stash


It turns out that talc and asbestos form near each other and it's difficult to separate them, so there's asbestos in that talcum powder. Apparently the Asian talc mines have more asbestos than American mines, so it started becoming a real issue when manufacturers started sourcing talc overseas.

Careful with that talcum powder in your tires, guys. Mesothelioma is an awful way to go.


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 Post subject: Re: Nosewheel tube failures
PostPosted: 17 May 2022, 00:01 
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Joined: 05/31/13
Posts: 1227
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Company: Docking Drawer
Location: KCCR
Aircraft: C425
Failure of the nose wheel tube is a common problem on Conquest I's. The tire seems to outlast the tube by several times. Many owners have switched from a 600-6 6 ply to a 8 ply which seems to help. I think it's the stiffer sidewall that seems to help the tube. I've also put the nosewheel tube on a 400 hr replacement schedule. It's way better than arriving at the airport with a flat tire or worse, having it fail on landing.

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 Post subject: Re: Nosewheel tube failures
PostPosted: 17 May 2022, 07:56 
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Joined: 10/18/11
Posts: 1026
Post Likes: +584
Aircraft: Seabee Aerostar 700
on my aerostar I installed the heavy duty tires and I was told to remove the sticker inside the tires. they seemed to cause the tube to fail in several hundred hours.


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 Post subject: Re: Nosewheel tube failures
PostPosted: 17 May 2022, 09:36 
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Joined: 02/09/09
Posts: 5547
Post Likes: +2503
Location: Owosso, MI (KRNP)
Aircraft: 1969 Bonanza V35A
Username Protected wrote:
on my aerostar I installed the heavy duty tires and I was told to remove the sticker inside the tires. they seemed to cause the tube to fail in several hundred hours.


I thought I had a post on here or AOA about that.

I had one tube fail, and another about to fail. Any stickers inside the tire will eat a tube. There is an explanation and picture in the Goodyear tire manual.

Mine was just pure luck, I had just finished a charity flight, parke din front of my hangar and noticed the tire was losing pressure (still within limits). I serviced it right there, rolled it in the hangar and it was losing pressure again. I put it on jacks to save the tire for the night and found the issue the next day. Knowing I replaced both tires and tubes at the same time, I checked the other MLG and it had the same issue.

Time in service was under a year and 70 hours.

Attachment:
2020-03-07 14.03.40 copy.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: Nosewheel tube failures
PostPosted: 17 May 2022, 17:54 
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Joined: 04/06/11
Posts: 7894
Post Likes: +3908
Aircraft: Warbirds
Username Protected wrote:
on my aerostar I installed the heavy duty tires and I was told to remove the sticker inside the tires. they seemed to cause the tube to fail in several hundred hours.


I thought I had a post on here or AOA about that.

I had one tube fail, and another about to fail. Any stickers inside the tire will eat a tube. There is an explanation and picture in the Goodyear tire manual.

Mine was just pure luck, I had just finished a charity flight, parke din front of my hangar and noticed the tire was losing pressure (still within limits). I serviced it right there, rolled it in the hangar and it was losing pressure again. I put it on jacks to save the tire for the night and found the issue the next day. Knowing I replaced both tires and tubes at the same time, I checked the other MLG and it had the same issue.

Time in service was under a year and 70 hours.

Attachment:
2020-03-07 14.03.40 copy.jpg

I had an argument with some management types from Aero Classics about ditching the stickers inside the tire casing.
They were saying they made it as a Tubeless 27 SC Type I tire. I was informing them that the Army Air Corp specs for a Type I tire included a tube! If your making a Type I spec tire it needs to be able to use a freaking tube!
They said they had to put a QC sticker in the tire. I replied that you're gonna bend metal, hurt, or even kill, people. Put it somewhere else or ink stamp the info.
_________________
Be careful what you ask for, your mechanic wants to sleep at night.


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 Post subject: Re: Nosewheel tube failures
PostPosted: 17 May 2022, 18:11 
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Joined: 11/30/12
Posts: 4006
Post Likes: +4410
Location: Santa Fe, NM (KSAF)
Aircraft: B200, 500B
I've had two sticker tube failures. They can be hard to find until you know what to look for. They'll hold light pressure outside a tire but won't hold 40+ psi.

Goodyear talks about it on page 16 here:
https://www.goodyearaviation.com/resour ... e-2020.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: Nosewheel tube failures
PostPosted: 29 May 2022, 08:24 
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Joined: 04/08/21
Posts: 17
Post Likes: +3
Location: Tacoma, WA
Aircraft: B36
Username Protected wrote:
I just had my fourth nosewheel tube failure in about 1000 hours of flying my current aircraft.
The weird thing is that when we remove the tube and inflate it there’s no sign of a leak.
Every time!
OK it’s an Aerostar…….. but a nosewheel is a nosewheel 600x6.
One failed on rollout and it destroyed the tire. In all other cases I’ve just come back from a few days of a visit to find the nosewheel tire flat. I’m not going to just blow it up and lose gas in the air only to land with a flat. So I have to replace the tube.
This last time we had a serious issue to deal with as there were no jacks on the field and no mechanics working on a Sunday. We finally winched the tail down with a come-along and managed to change out the tube but it was an odyssey that took almost all day.
The valve was good and capped, as always
We’ve concluded it simply must be “an act of God”!.
Unless anyone else can explain what’s happening.


What brand of tube?
George


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 Post subject: Re: Nosewheel tube failures
PostPosted: 29 May 2022, 10:07 
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Joined: 10/12/10
Posts: 1071
Post Likes: +550
Location: 5TX0 (North Texas)
Aircraft: F33A,Tecnam P2008
Username Protected wrote:
For airplane tires talc is good, corn starch is not good. Best to double-check one's stock.


This not the first time I've been made aware of my lack of knowledge. I've not heard corn starch is a bad substitute for talc when changing tubes. Please enlighten me.


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