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 Post subject: Re: Anybody else get sick of liars and POS when selling?
PostPosted: 15 Apr 2022, 07:33 
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Username Protected wrote:
Ryan perhaps you should look back at your posts with hopefully a clear mind, and then moderate your future posts.

It does you no credit calling a fellow BT member a liar, even if you believe that to be the case. Sometimes there are just simple misunderstandings, and each party can be convinced that their position is the correct one.

I know nothing about the laws of defamation in the States but you probably crossed the line here in Australia.

The purchase of a plane is a major investment for almost all buyers, whether it’s a Cherokee 140 or a Gulfstream. For some people the plane they choose to buy is financially trivial, but I am sure they are few and far between. All people are different and it’s hardly surprising that some of those differences are magnified when considering a substantial investment.

That’s unfortunate for Australia. I stand by everything I said.


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 Post subject: Re: Anybody else get sick of liars and POS when selling?
PostPosted: 15 Apr 2022, 07:44 
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Location: Peachtree City GA / Stoke-On-Trent UK
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When many people, myself included, go to look at something to buy, step one is to get to know the seller and decide of they are someone we can get along with. Knowing the seller's disposition then colors the perception of evaluating the product, which is step 2.

Ryan, you are going out of your way to paint yourself as emotional, judgmental, and inflexible, on a forum that comes up on the first page of internet searches. Any potential buyer who googles your name with your N-number is going to find this thread. Even if you delete all your posts (which you should) there is enough back and forth that the damage is done.

Please take the advice given by several people here to turn your plane over to a broker. You need to divorce yourself from the sale asap. Else you are going to miss this rare period in time when piston twins actually sell. You might have to wait 30 years for another chance like this.


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 Post subject: Re: Anybody else get sick of liars and POS when selling?
PostPosted: 15 Apr 2022, 08:21 
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Username Protected wrote:

The one member that seemed to support me pulled his card. Oof. I thought you understood what its like.

Ryan after reading the first couple pages of generic bitching (we've all had our turn in the barrel with silly offers) I stated that you're a reasonable person...then Mark Wyant chimed in.

I'm old enough to know that there's three versions of every story; yours, his and the truth. However, you both agree that after it fell apart you texted him to f@$k off and go piss up a rope. And clearly you're still RAGING about how this sales process is going for you.

You're emotionally invested and you're mad that the world didn't beat a path to your hangar door in what's been a seller's market. You're furious that people are using the high time engines as a negotiating tactic when you know damn well you would do the same thing. You're IMPLACABLE in your calculation of the aircraft's value and your opinion that is no big deal to order up a pair of engines and hang them on.

Ultimately it's your airplane and your perogative but something is only ever worth what the market is willing to pay for it and selling top-of-market legacy piston twins is rarely a pleasant experience.

As others have mentioned, give this to a broker. Pick a time frame you're willing to live with. Assess the offers and make decision.

In the meantime, look at your core business and ask yourself how much income your could have generated in the time you'll devote to selling the plane. Is it more or less than the delta between what you would take and what the highest real offer has been?

Divorce yourself from this process. Much like the other kind of divorce...you'll wish you had done it sooner.


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 Post subject: Re: Anybody else get sick of liars and POS when selling?
PostPosted: 15 Apr 2022, 08:27 
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The truth?

This thread should never have happened.

Jg

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 Post subject: Re: Anybody else get sick of liars and POS when selling?
PostPosted: 15 Apr 2022, 09:39 
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Username Protected wrote:
In all honesty I figured I would have had more support from the members here because they likely had sold planes and dealt with this madness before. I just wanted a little encouragement to get past it.


My apologies to Ryan and anyone else who perceives this post as preachy and sanctimonious. It's not my intent. While this thread shouldn't have happened, it did and like all bad things, good can come from it.

Ryan, you've been around BT a long time.

You expected something history here suggests you had little to no chance of receiving.

And you're doing the exact same thing dealing with prospective buyers.

Perhaps there should be a "TiradeTalk", where people can vent their frustrations and the rules mandate nothing but empathy and support.

But that forum doesn't exist.

And probably shouldn't, as it would do more harm than good, trading long term personal growth for short term, likely tenuous, relief.

Expecting something we shouldn't expect is the one of the primary causes of self induced frustration and disappointment.

My hand is in the air as a sufferer of this disease.

Every day, especially these days, I remind myself of three "life rules" I'm trying to use to avoid letting my emotions get the best of me and minimize self induced frustration.

1) Manage and control my expectations

2) Don't take things personally

3) Take the high road

These things are each way easier said than done, individually wicked hard to do, and together almost too high a bar for me to clear.

But every day I try, fail, and try harder. I just don't like the alternative.

Good luck with the sale of your airplane.

:cheers:

_________________
Things are rarely what they seem, but they're always exactly what they are.


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 Post subject: Re: Anybody else get sick of liars and POS when selling?
PostPosted: 15 Apr 2022, 11:21 
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Joined: 01/06/08
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Aircraft: B55 P2
Its not very expensive to weigh an airplane, nothing on the scale of a $500K airplane. If there is any doubt, or concern that a buyer might not trust the weight, might as well have it weighted.

When I was looking for a baron, when I saw a useful load that seemed way out of line (high or low) it made me a bit suspicious. Not enough in itself to keep me from looking at a plane, but a negative mark.





Username Protected wrote:
That has to be the lightest 421C ever with a EW of 4777 and UL of 2803.

I would be EXTREMELY suspicious of this weighing.

I bet there is an error somewhere. For example, they weighed it with fuel on board and subtracted more than the fuel actually was.

It is common to find W&B errors. I once saw a 310 listed as having an empty weight listed of ~1600 lbs and a useful load of ~3700 lbs. Yup, the shop had transposed empty and useful. The sad part is that *three* different shops subsequent to the error had updated the W&B and didn't catch the error!

Mike C.


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 Post subject: Re: Anybody else get sick of liars and POS when selling?
PostPosted: 15 Apr 2022, 11:34 
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Joined: 01/24/10
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Location: Concord , CA (KCCR)
Aircraft: 1967 Baron B55
Quote from Former owner.

“ I owned this aircraft for around 25 years. The useful load was around 2200# when I sold it a decade ago.”

Old 421C’s don’t suddenly gain 600 plus pounds of useful load. Removing a flushing potty, some cabin dividers and new Avionic’s won’t do that.

The W&B needs to be redone.


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 Post subject: Re: Anybody else get sick of liars and POS when selling?
PostPosted: 15 Apr 2022, 11:50 
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Location: Dallas, Texas
Aircraft: Piaggio P180, TTx
Username Protected wrote:
Wow, just wow. Just saw this, I guess I was maggot #7 who he claimed said “ cancel all your plans on Tuesday I’ll buy the plane”.

Except that’s bullshit and you know it bub. I told you that I would make my best effort to meet you on Tuesday afternoon but since I was having to drive down from Dallas (my TTX is in annual that I was considering selling to buy your airplane with) to Galveston it would be quite a ways out of my way to get to your home airport. I said I was very interested and would call you Monday to firm up plans.

Life interceded and my business plans changed. You called me while I was on a conference call and I told you I would call you back that evening.

Prior to my calling you you texted me …. and I quote to “%#$@ off you %#$@%#$@” and “ go piss up a rope”.

Nice.

I think it will pass on it pal. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


You're a liar Mark Wyant. I text you Monday to confirm plans for Tuesday and said:

"Hi Mark. I do not have a 2pm so free until 3:15-3:30 tomorrow. Do you know what your plans are yet?
Ryan Alcorn
N727ES"

And no reply. You called me and let it ring once on Tuesday at 11:50am from an unsaved number (214)xxx and I missed the call. I called back immediately and I said "I missed a call", and you said "must have been a wrong number", I said "I have a plane for sale maybe that was it", and you said "no nope not me". You lie. And here you are lying again, you never called "later that evening" as you said above. It was later Tuesday afternoon around 2pm that I determined it was your number when looking through my phone to text you again about us meeting that day and saw that that was your number and you who acted like you had no clue who I could be when I called. I text:

"Mark you called earlier and when I called back said you didn’t mean to call me. I now see your email and see that this is your cell. Are you able to discuss N727ES? The plan was for you to look at the plane today and I have made myself available to do so. If that is not going to be necessary please advise so I can make other arrangements."

And no reply. It was at 10pm Tuesday night I told you to go piss up a rope, and #### ###. That's when I had had enough and made the original post here(which I have asked yesterday to delete to two mods and within this thread). Friday or over the weekend we spoke for what 30 minutes? An hour or more? You said in that call you are very interested and this coming Tuesday works best. I told you how much %#$@ I had going on but I would change it all for you and I did. Then you denied you knew at all who I was in the call. You didn't say anything about calling me back later that night, you said you didn't know anything about a plane or who I am. Show the screen shot if you want guy.

I didn't tell you off until Tuesday at 10pm and you had never called as you lie in this thread you would.

Man this is exhausting. I haven't caught up on this thread. In all honesty I figured I would have had more support from the members here because they likely had sold planes and dealt with this madness before. I just wanted a little encouragement to get past it. Just landed in Orlando and I got another crazy email from a "buyer". Another looney tunes trying to lowball and claiming to be a serious buyer because he called my shop...


Umm wrong.

, I called you back AND YOU DIDNT ANSWER on Tuesday morning to tell you of my change of plans. You called back during a conference call and I couldn’t talk and apparently that irked you. I have no idea who or when you called later that had no idea who you were but it wasn’t me. You said you looked the number up and it was me….apparently it wasn’t! The text you said you sent apparently was either deleted or sent to wrong number as I never saw it, but it was never viewed by me so who knows.

The first one I got from you that i actually saw called me a [admin edit]

Goodbye and good luck pal. Easy to use the block feature here.

Last edited on 15 Apr 2022, 11:57, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Anybody else get sick of liars and POS when selling?
PostPosted: 15 Apr 2022, 11:51 
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Username Protected wrote:
In all honesty I figured I would have had more support from the members here because they likely had sold planes and dealt with this madness before. I just wanted a little encouragement to get past it.


My apologies to Ryan and anyone else who perceives this post as preachy and sanctimonious. It's not my intent. While this thread shouldn't have happened, it did and like all bad things, good can come from it.

Ryan, you've been around BT a long time.

You expected something history here suggests you had little to no chance of receiving.

And you're doing the exact same thing dealing with prospective buyers.

The Wiseman name is well earned
Perhaps there should be a "TiradeTalk", where people can vent their frustrations and the rules mandate nothing but empathy and support.

But that forum doesn't exist.

And probably shouldn't, as it would do more harm than good, trading long term personal growth for short term, likely tenuous, relief.

Expecting something we shouldn't expect is the one of the primary causes of self induced frustration and disappointment.

My hand is in the air as a sufferer of this disease.

Every day, especially these days, I remind myself of three "life rules" I'm trying to use to avoid letting my emotions get the best of me and minimize self induced frustration.

1) Manage and control my expectations

2) Don't take things personally

3) Take the high road

These things are each way easier said than done, individually wicked hard to do, and together almost too high a bar for me to clear.

But every day I try, fail, and try harder. I just don't like the alternative.

Good luck with the sale of your airplane.

:cheers:


The Wiseman name is well earned
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Mark Newberry


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 Post subject: Re: Anybody else get sick of liars and POS when selling?
PostPosted: 15 Apr 2022, 11:55 
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I vote to shutter this thread.

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 Post subject: Re: Anybody else get sick of liars and POS when selling?
PostPosted: 15 Apr 2022, 11:57 
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I second.


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 Post subject: Re: Anybody else get sick of liars and POS when selling?
PostPosted: 15 Apr 2022, 12:55 
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Username Protected wrote:
I vote to shutter this thread.



Well you're just a big party pooper!!!!!

:lol:

Seriously, I keep waiting for the triple-dare-ya's to start being hurled.

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I don't have a problem with anger, I have a problem with idiots.


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 Post subject: Re: Anybody else get sick of liars and POS when selling?
PostPosted: 15 Apr 2022, 13:06 
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I'm actually starting to wonder if all of this is about a misdial, or someones phone auto-blocking what it thought was a spam call.

Modern technology can screw people up royally. I've had emails from one my contract administrators sent to spam by some automated system.

I have no opinion on what happened here, but please, if what happened was a failure to return calls, be sure that the other party did receive the call. Automation can totally screw this up. If you haven't spoken in person, this could all be an automation caused problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Anybody else get sick of liars and POS when selling?
PostPosted: 15 Apr 2022, 16:31 
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Location: British Columbia
Aircraft: Cessna 350
I'm a buyer. Does anyone have a plane for sale?


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 Post subject: Re: Anybody else get sick of liars and POS when selling?
PostPosted: 15 Apr 2022, 16:52 
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Username Protected wrote:
I'm a buyer. Does anyone have a plane for sale?


Poser. I left you a voice mail 6 seconds ago about my Bo and you still haven't called me back. Go get a rope. You know what to do.

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Things are rarely what they seem, but they're always exactly what they are.


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