banner
banner

18 Apr 2024, 03:25 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Aviation Fabricators (Top Banner)



Reply to topic  [ 52 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: Re: Final Learjet.
PostPosted: 04 Apr 2022, 13:46 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 11/03/08
Posts: 14563
Post Likes: +22916
Location: Peachtree City GA / Stoke-On-Trent UK
Aircraft: A33
I'd be curious to know how they even sold this one. Who is buying a small 2-pilot jet in today's world ?


Top

 Post subject: Re: Final Learjet.
PostPosted: 04 Apr 2022, 13:59 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 11/15/17
Posts: 685
Post Likes: +350
Company: Cessna (retired)
When Cessna first started SP, they could only do it under Part 23. The 551 was limited to 12,500 lb, which is why it wasn't very successful. That changed later.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Final Learjet.
PostPosted: 04 Apr 2022, 14:00 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 04/26/13
Posts: 19900
Post Likes: +19618
Location: Columbus , IN (KBAK)
Aircraft: 1968 Baron D55
Username Protected wrote:
When Cessna first started SP, they could only do it under Part 23. The 551 was limited to 12,500 lb, which is why it wasn't very successful. That changed later.

That's why the Lear 23 is called a Lear 23.

_________________
My last name rhymes with 'geese'.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Final Learjet.
PostPosted: 04 Apr 2022, 14:00 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 11/15/17
Posts: 685
Post Likes: +350
Company: Cessna (retired)
When Cessna first started SP, they could only do it under Part 23. The 551 was limited to 12,500 lb, which is why it wasn't very successful. That changed later. ISTR they tried to do it on the original 500 cert and were unsuccessful


Top

 Post subject: Re: Final Learjet.
PostPosted: 04 Apr 2022, 14:02 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/06/08
Posts: 6279
Post Likes: +3074
Location: Pottstown, PA (KPTW)
Aircraft: 1965 Debonair C33
I flew right seat in a Lear Jet 35 for awhile.

Since I had no idea what I was doing, had no book training, didn’t know the numbers, the pilot was flying it single pilot. Didn’t look too hard.

_________________
President, Northeast Bonanza Group


Top

 Post subject: Re: Final Learjet.
PostPosted: 04 Apr 2022, 14:28 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 01/29/09
Posts: 1744
Post Likes: +513
Location: KCRS
Username Protected wrote:
I flew right seat in a Lear Jet 35 for awhile.

Since I had no idea what I was doing, had no book training, didn’t know the numbers, the pilot was flying it single pilot. Didn’t look too hard.



Greatness....have a Yeungling on me.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Final Learjet.
PostPosted: 04 Apr 2022, 23:51 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 04/24/18
Posts: 727
Post Likes: +340
Location: NYC
Aircraft: ISP Eagle II SR22 g2
Username Protected wrote:
I flew right seat in a Lear Jet 35 for awhile.

Since I had no idea what I was doing, had no book training, didn’t know the numbers, the pilot was flying it single pilot. Didn’t look too hard.


He (like many pilots) was likely a bit of an overachiever. I’d imagine that when the FAA certifies a jet as single pilot, they deem it suitable for a businessman to hop in once or twice a month and go fly without killing anyone.
A pro pilot with decent skills, flying 3 days a week can fly many 2 crew airplanes as a single pilot.
Then of course there’s the issue of abnormals/emergencies. When the SHTF is the primary reason IMHO for crew requirements.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Final Learjet.
PostPosted: 05 Apr 2022, 10:19 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 11/01/08
Posts: 2630
Post Likes: +648
N2022L........fitting N Number.

[youtube]http://youtu.be/YUX32edpZV8[/youtube]


Top

 Post subject: Re: Final Learjet.
PostPosted: 05 Apr 2022, 10:53 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 11/06/20
Posts: 1298
Post Likes: +1290
Location: Tulsa, OK - KRVS
Aircraft: C501SP
Username Protected wrote:
He (like many pilots) was likely a bit of an overachiever. I’d imagine that when the FAA certifies a jet as single pilot, they deem it suitable for a businessman to hop in once or twice a month and go fly without killing anyone.
A pro pilot with decent skills, flying 3 days a week can fly many 2 crew airplanes as a single pilot.
Then of course there’s the issue of abnormals/emergencies. When the SHTF is the primary reason IMHO for crew requirements.

Agreed. Though I have to question whether I could have flown my plane single pilot using 1980's avionics. I shudder to think about flying IAPs and STARs at jet speeds (yes, it's a slow jet, but still) while dialing VORs/NDBs, running checklists, talking to ATC, oh, and actually flying the plane (well, managing the autopilot to hit all of the lateral and vertical points needed).

My hat is off to anyone doing it back then....


Top

 Post subject: Re: Final Learjet.
PostPosted: 05 Apr 2022, 13:19 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/06/08
Posts: 6279
Post Likes: +3074
Location: Pottstown, PA (KPTW)
Aircraft: 1965 Debonair C33
Username Protected wrote:
He (like many pilots) was likely a bit of an overachiever. I’d imagine that when the FAA certifies a jet as single pilot, they deem it suitable for a businessman to hop in once or twice a month and go fly without killing anyone.
A pro pilot with decent skills, flying 3 days a week can fly many 2 crew airplanes as a single pilot.
Then of course there’s the issue of abnormals/emergencies. When the SHTF is the primary reason IMHO for crew requirements.

Agreed. Though I have to question whether I could have flown my plane single pilot using 1980's avionics. I shudder to think about flying IAPs and STARs at jet speeds (yes, it's a slow jet, but still) while dialing VORs/NDBs, running checklists, talking to ATC, oh, and actually flying the plane (well, managing the autopilot to hit all of the lateral and vertical points needed).

My hat is off to anyone doing it back then....


My recollection is that we didn’t have all those STARS and vertical crossing points back then.

What I remember is vectors and altitude assignments from 410 to an ILS on a long runway.
_________________
President, Northeast Bonanza Group


Top

 Post subject: Re: Final Learjet.
PostPosted: 05 Apr 2022, 18:55 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 04/16/11
Posts: 5246
Post Likes: +6862
Company: Self Employed
Location: Burlington, NC
Aircraft: V35B
When I was a teenager, I had the opportunity to ride right seat in a KA 200 on several occasions, and right seat in a CJ once, with a SP, just to be a second set of eyes.

The 200 was owner/pilot, and anytime he was flying into a Class B like Charlotte or Atlanta, he would invite me to go with him. Although I didn't have my PPL, I could still help with COMM radios, GPS, and helping with checklists. All these things I got pretty good at, and it took a lot of work off of him.

The CJ was a flight to Norfolk, VA. Pretty much same thing.

_________________
Matt
336-266-3105
Blockbuster Video!!! Wow what a difference.
Be Kind, Rewind...


Top

 Post subject: Re: Final Learjet.
PostPosted: 05 Apr 2022, 19:22 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 04/30/09
Posts: 1517
Post Likes: +859
I flew the LearJet 35A. I’m extremely confident that it could indeed be flown single pilot, but I would want to move a few switches from the FOs right knee.

_________________
Former Taco Chef
Now - Battery Salesman
No Engineering Skills
I don’t know what I don’t know


Top

 Post subject: Re: Final Learjet.
PostPosted: 05 Apr 2022, 23:43 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/17/13
Posts: 6354
Post Likes: +5538
Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
Well, apparently Bill himself flew it SP many times, according to the book I read. He wasn't too bothered with following the rules always. And there was a Danish one that the owner flew SP for years, until he ran off the runway and got caught.

_________________
Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Final Learjet.
PostPosted: 06 Apr 2022, 16:07 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 06/06/12
Posts: 2290
Post Likes: +2114
Company: FlightRepublic
Location: Bee Cave, TX
Aircraft: DA40, C182
I have to wonder whether the FAA’s reluctance to certify the Lear 23 for single pilot operation was in part based on the two crashes of the pre-production single-seat FFA P-16 fighter, on whose wing the Lear 23 was built?
Perhaps if those single seat aircraft had entered service, light jets would be single pilot. On the other hand, if the P-16 had been a success, would Bill Lear have succeeded in buying the wing design for his jet?

_________________
Antoni Deighton
contactlink.to/antoni.deighton


Top

 Post subject: Re: Final Learjet.
PostPosted: 07 Apr 2022, 06:45 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 04/26/13
Posts: 19900
Post Likes: +19618
Location: Columbus , IN (KBAK)
Aircraft: 1968 Baron D55
Username Protected wrote:
I have to wonder whether the FAA’s reluctance to certify the Lear 23 for single pilot operation was in part based on the two crashes of the pre-production single-seat FFA P-16 fighter, on whose wing the Lear 23 was built?
Perhaps if those single seat aircraft had entered service, light jets would be single pilot. On the other hand, if the P-16 had been a success, would Bill Lear have succeeded in buying the wing design for his jet?

I don’t think that the FAA would have bothered to try to equate the Lear Jet to a military fighter, and if they did, the comparison alone, crash or no, would be enough to take a pass on SP certification.

As to the wing, I don’t know how much he “borrowed” from the P-16 beyond the idea, but I think that Bill would have made the plane with or without the wing. There are lots of NACA designs to choose from and while I love the original factory wing, there were later designs that followed, so I think he’d have just done it himself.

_________________
My last name rhymes with 'geese'.


Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 52 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next




You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2024

.gallagher_85x50.jpg.
.CiESVer2.jpg.
.Rocky-Mountain-Turbine-85x100.jpg.
.kingairacademy-85x100.png.
.centex-85x50.jpg.
.Wentworth_85x100.JPG.
.avfab-85x50-2018-12-04.png.
.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.AAI.jpg.
.stanmusikame-85x50.jpg.
.cav-85x50.jpg.
.aeroled-85x50-2022-12-06.jpg.
.aircraftassociates-85x50.png.
.airmart-85x150.png.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.
.blackwell-85x50.png.
.ssv-85x50-2023-12-17.jpg.
.aircraftferry-85x50.jpg.
.Latitude.jpg.
.boomerang-85x50-2023-12-17.png.
.one-mile-up-85x100.png.
.concorde.jpg.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.traceaviation-85x150.png.
.dbm.jpg.
.Foreflight_85x50_color.png.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.daytona.jpg.
.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.Genesys_85x50.jpg.
.ei-85x150.jpg.
.Marsh.jpg.
.blackhawk-85x100-2019-09-25.jpg.
.sierratrax-85x50.png.
.lucysaviation-85x50.png.
.chairmanaviation-85x50.jpg.
.saint-85x50.jpg.
.midwest2.jpg.
.avionwealth-85x50.png.
.kingairnation-85x50.png.
.wat-85x50.jpg.
.bpt-85x50-2019-07-27.jpg.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.puremedical-85x200.jpg.
.kadex-85x50.jpg.
.SCA.jpg.
.wilco-85x100.png.
.headsetsetc_Small_85x50.jpg.
.shortnnumbers-85x100.png.
.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.jetacq-85x50.jpg.
.tempest.jpg.
.Wingman 85x50.png.
.bullardaviation-85x50-2.jpg.
.tat-85x100.png.
.jandsaviation-85x50.jpg.
.camguard.jpg.