18 Apr 2024, 03:25 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Final Learjet. Posted: 04 Apr 2022, 13:46 |
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Joined: 11/03/08 Posts: 14563 Post Likes: +22916 Location: Peachtree City GA / Stoke-On-Trent UK
Aircraft: A33
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I'd be curious to know how they even sold this one. Who is buying a small 2-pilot jet in today's world ?
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Post subject: Re: Final Learjet. Posted: 04 Apr 2022, 13:59 |
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Joined: 11/15/17 Posts: 685 Post Likes: +350 Company: Cessna (retired)
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When Cessna first started SP, they could only do it under Part 23. The 551 was limited to 12,500 lb, which is why it wasn't very successful. That changed later.
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Post subject: Re: Final Learjet. Posted: 04 Apr 2022, 14:00 |
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Joined: 04/26/13 Posts: 19900 Post Likes: +19618 Location: Columbus , IN (KBAK)
Aircraft: 1968 Baron D55
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Username Protected wrote: When Cessna first started SP, they could only do it under Part 23. The 551 was limited to 12,500 lb, which is why it wasn't very successful. That changed later. That's why the Lear 23 is called a Lear 23.
_________________ My last name rhymes with 'geese'.
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Post subject: Re: Final Learjet. Posted: 04 Apr 2022, 14:00 |
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Joined: 11/15/17 Posts: 685 Post Likes: +350 Company: Cessna (retired)
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When Cessna first started SP, they could only do it under Part 23. The 551 was limited to 12,500 lb, which is why it wasn't very successful. That changed later. ISTR they tried to do it on the original 500 cert and were unsuccessful
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Post subject: Re: Final Learjet. Posted: 04 Apr 2022, 14:28 |
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Joined: 01/29/09 Posts: 1744 Post Likes: +513 Location: KCRS
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Username Protected wrote: I flew right seat in a Lear Jet 35 for awhile.
Since I had no idea what I was doing, had no book training, didn’t know the numbers, the pilot was flying it single pilot. Didn’t look too hard. Greatness....have a Yeungling on me.
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Post subject: Re: Final Learjet. Posted: 04 Apr 2022, 23:51 |
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Joined: 04/24/18 Posts: 727 Post Likes: +340 Location: NYC
Aircraft: ISP Eagle II SR22 g2
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Username Protected wrote: I flew right seat in a Lear Jet 35 for awhile.
Since I had no idea what I was doing, had no book training, didn’t know the numbers, the pilot was flying it single pilot. Didn’t look too hard. He (like many pilots) was likely a bit of an overachiever. I’d imagine that when the FAA certifies a jet as single pilot, they deem it suitable for a businessman to hop in once or twice a month and go fly without killing anyone. A pro pilot with decent skills, flying 3 days a week can fly many 2 crew airplanes as a single pilot. Then of course there’s the issue of abnormals/emergencies. When the SHTF is the primary reason IMHO for crew requirements.
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Post subject: Re: Final Learjet. Posted: 05 Apr 2022, 10:19 |
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Joined: 11/01/08 Posts: 2630 Post Likes: +648
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N2022L........fitting N Number.
[youtube]http://youtu.be/YUX32edpZV8[/youtube]
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Post subject: Re: Final Learjet. Posted: 05 Apr 2022, 10:53 |
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Joined: 11/06/20 Posts: 1298 Post Likes: +1290 Location: Tulsa, OK - KRVS
Aircraft: C501SP
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Username Protected wrote: He (like many pilots) was likely a bit of an overachiever. I’d imagine that when the FAA certifies a jet as single pilot, they deem it suitable for a businessman to hop in once or twice a month and go fly without killing anyone. A pro pilot with decent skills, flying 3 days a week can fly many 2 crew airplanes as a single pilot. Then of course there’s the issue of abnormals/emergencies. When the SHTF is the primary reason IMHO for crew requirements. Agreed. Though I have to question whether I could have flown my plane single pilot using 1980's avionics. I shudder to think about flying IAPs and STARs at jet speeds (yes, it's a slow jet, but still) while dialing VORs/NDBs, running checklists, talking to ATC, oh, and actually flying the plane (well, managing the autopilot to hit all of the lateral and vertical points needed). My hat is off to anyone doing it back then....
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Post subject: Re: Final Learjet. Posted: 05 Apr 2022, 13:19 |
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Joined: 01/06/08 Posts: 6279 Post Likes: +3074 Location: Pottstown, PA (KPTW)
Aircraft: 1965 Debonair C33
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Username Protected wrote: He (like many pilots) was likely a bit of an overachiever. I’d imagine that when the FAA certifies a jet as single pilot, they deem it suitable for a businessman to hop in once or twice a month and go fly without killing anyone. A pro pilot with decent skills, flying 3 days a week can fly many 2 crew airplanes as a single pilot. Then of course there’s the issue of abnormals/emergencies. When the SHTF is the primary reason IMHO for crew requirements. Agreed. Though I have to question whether I could have flown my plane single pilot using 1980's avionics. I shudder to think about flying IAPs and STARs at jet speeds (yes, it's a slow jet, but still) while dialing VORs/NDBs, running checklists, talking to ATC, oh, and actually flying the plane (well, managing the autopilot to hit all of the lateral and vertical points needed). My hat is off to anyone doing it back then....
My recollection is that we didn’t have all those STARS and vertical crossing points back then.
What I remember is vectors and altitude assignments from 410 to an ILS on a long runway.
_________________ President, Northeast Bonanza Group
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Post subject: Re: Final Learjet. Posted: 05 Apr 2022, 18:55 |
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Joined: 04/16/11 Posts: 5246 Post Likes: +6862 Company: Self Employed Location: Burlington, NC
Aircraft: V35B
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When I was a teenager, I had the opportunity to ride right seat in a KA 200 on several occasions, and right seat in a CJ once, with a SP, just to be a second set of eyes.
The 200 was owner/pilot, and anytime he was flying into a Class B like Charlotte or Atlanta, he would invite me to go with him. Although I didn't have my PPL, I could still help with COMM radios, GPS, and helping with checklists. All these things I got pretty good at, and it took a lot of work off of him.
The CJ was a flight to Norfolk, VA. Pretty much same thing.
_________________ Matt 336-266-3105 Blockbuster Video!!! Wow what a difference. Be Kind, Rewind...
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Post subject: Re: Final Learjet. Posted: 07 Apr 2022, 06:45 |
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Joined: 04/26/13 Posts: 19900 Post Likes: +19618 Location: Columbus , IN (KBAK)
Aircraft: 1968 Baron D55
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Username Protected wrote: I have to wonder whether the FAA’s reluctance to certify the Lear 23 for single pilot operation was in part based on the two crashes of the pre-production single-seat FFA P-16 fighter, on whose wing the Lear 23 was built? Perhaps if those single seat aircraft had entered service, light jets would be single pilot. On the other hand, if the P-16 had been a success, would Bill Lear have succeeded in buying the wing design for his jet? I don’t think that the FAA would have bothered to try to equate the Lear Jet to a military fighter, and if they did, the comparison alone, crash or no, would be enough to take a pass on SP certification. As to the wing, I don’t know how much he “borrowed” from the P-16 beyond the idea, but I think that Bill would have made the plane with or without the wing. There are lots of NACA designs to choose from and while I love the original factory wing, there were later designs that followed, so I think he’d have just done it himself.
_________________ My last name rhymes with 'geese'.
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