I have no idea what the value of selling Mooney parts, or having a Type Certificate and Manufacturer Certificate. I suspect it cost a whole lotta money to get restarted, plus years of delays.

Perhaps, it would indeed make a great “lower cost” platform for a future hybrid and then electric powered plane, but as far as creature comforts, it needs a Cirrus sized interior, AT A MINIMUM.

Plus, a parachute. If new aircraft manufacturing were restarted, it would need SOMETHING besides decade after failed decade of the same old sh*t. Maybe a competent liquid cooled Diesel engine would be a good start?

They tried that in the M10. Total flop.....

Dave

This seems pragmatic enough… if only there was enough money.

A Mooney is way too labor intensive to build nowadays. Beyond the steel tube frame under the skin, you have all the pushrids, bellcranks, gear, standoffs, etc under the belly and skin made of welded tubing. It's like you were building a Skybolt fuselage and then building an aluminum plane around it. The only way it would make sense is if it were a top drawer limo of a plane like a Bentley.

That said, there's a dedicated core of existing owners that will need parts for decades to come. However, if they were to build new planes, it needs to be a complete re-design.

(with an extra 2-3" between the accessory case and the firewall)

It is really difficult to compete against an established leader in a market that has high production numbers thus much lower costs. the trick is how will the New Mooney compare to a Cirrus and where will it be better in performance or?

unfortunately I do not see where it will have a competitive advantage. especially in a market that is not growing.

I think the path to sucess is to concentrate on supporting the existing aircraft out there and perhaps offer competitive upgrades like gross weight increases for the existing aircraft.

thus the initial purchase price must be low enough to cash flow and provide a pay back.

American champion is the model that should be followed.

I’ve heard reports that a new Cirrus will sell for $100k to $150k over sticker just to have it now vs the long wait list. And for sure Cirrus will be increasing prices. The used Mooney market previously seemed to be a real competitor to the sale of new Mooneys, but that’s changed with increased demand for all planes. Planes changing hands and lesser condition planes selling too means greater demand for parts. Yeah, the Mooney doesn’t have a parachute, but it can recover from a spin! All composite has advantages, but also disadvantages, especially for damages that will total one but not the other. The newer models have 2 doors that are wider, composite panels, and haven’t the cabin dimensions always essentially been the same or even wider than the Bonanza? Take a look: https://tinyurl.com/mpj7f3nk . That’s a great looking and performing plane! A pilots plane, great traveling plane, great performance to cost proposition. Did the China trade war ruin sales by association or the China government authorities retaliate by wanting Mooney to fail? Probably yes to both. And it has traded hands and closed many times, and yeah that hurts it. However, it’s a different market now with rising prices, higher margins possible, and strong demand for personal aircraft that is likely to persist, though that’s not certain. Yes, mostly hand made, low volume, but that’s the norm in GA. One of the new 172 Skyhawk competitors is the Vulcanair V1.0, an interesting return to production of the Partenavia P.64B Oscar aircraft direct from the 1960’s with an updated glass avionics suite. Yes, it’s not a 172, but it’s receiving some good traction in this market.

For some reason, it seems to be blasphemy to acknowledge that the technology and design of general aviation airplanes has progressed in the last 70 years. Those designs are still wonderful airplanes; Bonanzas, Mooneys, and Comanches for example, but they are about as well suited to modern production as the coolest car my parents ever bought, a 1958 Chrysler Imperial. Five people could play musical chairs in that back seat.

Parts support? Well, there is definitely some market. Heck, I can buy almost any part "new" for my 195 from the 195 Factory in New York that has a grand total of about 5 employees.

There has been a lot of money lost in the name of Mooney over the last 30 years. That is an investment that pulls up images of strangers sitting together in a public hot tub at a resort. Come on in, the water is fine, the social is inviting, and the germs are free.

Jg

Is lending itself to -modern production- a real constraint? Doesn’t the production technique for 172s, Archers, Seneca, Bonanza, Baron, King Air, WACO, American Champion, etc., etc. pretty much all maintain the same historical production techniques still today?

Like all those models and their manufacturers, they compete in the market along with Cirrus, but they don’t directly compete with Cirrus. They aren’t going to unseat the dominant manufacturer, they intelligently don’t try, but appeal to a specific segment of the market and have scaled and occupy a niche profitably and sustainably.

If a small-number of flying examples round engine truly vintage plane like the 195 has a viable parts business, isn’t that saying the Mooney parts business has viability given the much greater number of flying numbers and models?

What’s the clearing price and strategy where it makes sense?

Just for funzies. . . .

Let’s say you bargained hard and they let it go for only $12M. First, that’s $40/sf for the property, under replacement for just the buildings, the dirt is worth maybe 50acres (educated guess) x $10k/ac (less educated guess) = $500k-$1MM.

To cover the capital cost of the real estate would take at least $1.5M. Assume they can net 10% on the business that takes $15M in revenues, annually. With 7000 planes still flying, let’s guess only 1/3 are really active flyers, call it 2000. That means the average active owner has to spend about $2000 in parts. And that’s for break-even. Seems highly unlikely.

So what’s more likely, $500yr avg spend on factory parts? $200? Adjust price accordingly. I’d guess a better route (and I’d guess the end result) is for someone to buy the assets for $1M or so and relocate to an existing parts manufacturer, then sell or lease the real estate.

KERV has a long waiting list for hangar space, and self storage space is almost non-existent , 300k sf could fully absorb the hangar list with plenty of room for storage and probably 2/3 of the room left over for other industrial lease space.

So who’s with me? Clint F., looking at you!

Edit: Minor complicating factor - the dirt is owned by the City, who’s not known to be airport growth friendly. And converting to any kind of non-aviation use likely to be restricted by federal regs I don’t know anything about. So the dirt’s worth $0.

I wanted to review the listing so I clicked on the link…. and the listing is gone!

Man, somebody moved fast…. Which one of you has it under contract??

Per Mr. Buffet...

"... when a management with a reputation for brilliance tackles a business with a reputation for bad economics, it is the reputation of the business that remains intact."

A number of vintage Mooneys have been taken out of service in recent years due to corrosion in the wing spars, particularly the rear stub spar area. Mooney typically did not corrosion proof that part of the airframe.

One business possibility would be to offer new, fully corrosion proofed wing assemblies along with demating and installation services, for the vintage fleet.

Just for funzies. . . .

Let’s say you bargained hard and they let it go for only $12M. First, that’s $40/sf for the property, under replacement for just the buildings, the dirt is worth maybe 50acres (educated guess) x $10k/ac (less educated guess) = $500k-$1MM.

To cover the capital cost of the real estate would take at least $1.5M. Assume they can net 10% on the business that takes $15M in revenues, annually. With 7000 planes still flying, let’s guess only 1/3 are really active flyers, call it 2000. That means the average active owner has to spend about $2000 in parts. And that’s for break-even. Seems highly unlikely.

So what’s more likely, $500yr avg spend on factory parts? $200? Adjust price accordingly. I’d guess a better route (and I’d guess the end result) is for someone to buy the assets for $1M or so and relocate to an existing parts manufacturer, then sell or lease the real estate.

KERV has a long waiting list for hangar space, and self storage space is almost non-existent , 300k sf could fully absorb the hangar list with plenty of room for storage and probably 2/3 of the room left over for other industrial lease space.

So who’s with me? Clint F., looking at you!

Edit: Minor complicating factor - the dirt is owned by the City, who’s not known to be airport growth friendly. And converting to any kind of non-aviation use likely to be restricted by federal regs I don’t know anything about. So the dirt’s worth $0.

I wish they would look into sub-contracting again like they did many years ago. Having capacity and a production certificate (including quality system, PMA, etc) can be quite valuable in this environment of increasing demand for civilian and military aircraft. They need something to support the large overhead that will likely never be filled again with new M20 production.

"likely never be filled again with new M20 production"

Awe come on man... Scott let's hope that Mooney will someday make our beloved planes again. Who knows what a good engineer and entrepreneur might make happen.

Glad you added "likely". Perhaps a Mooney nut will win the powerball and decide to "invest". Glass is half full, if we hope hard enough...