29 Mar 2024, 06:35 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Best plane for 6 people, 600 nm Posted: 21 Apr 2022, 09:37 |
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Joined: 01/10/17 Posts: 1662 Post Likes: +1126 Company: Skyhaven Airport Inc
Aircraft: various mid century
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Its efficient and fast but I flew the short body MU2 and thought it had no soul. The controls felt the same to me taxiing as at 200knots. Spoilers and spring tension. I was not fond of seating position and having to move the autopilot controls out of the way to get in the seat. I wanted a rectangular cabin vs circular cross section.
Right to the numbers it performed and even flew slow flight very well. Nothing scary there as long as it’s configured correctly.
But I went for the E90 from the 421B. Moving up from that I though the early 200 did handle nicer than the 90. B200 with Raisbeck leading edges I did not like as much. In the end the E90 is still here in the hangar but the 200 is not. Radio upgrades and removing all cabin partitions got the E90 empty weight down more usable. Why does cabin furnishing have to be so heavy?
See if you can get a ride or even better a good left seat trip in each type with competent right seater to get a feel for things. I’d rather PT-6 than Garrett but not for efficiency or performance. Looked at the 441 real hard after working on and flying Twin Cessnas since I was a kid. but taller cabin and heavier construction of the Kingair Series won out.
Now primary passengers kids and grand kids are getting bigger so back looking for a newer B200 with Garmin equipment and lightest empty weight possible.
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Post subject: Re: Best plane for 6 people, 600 nm Posted: 21 Apr 2022, 09:43 |
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Joined: 11/30/12 Posts: 4006 Post Likes: +4410 Location: Santa Fe, NM (KSAF)
Aircraft: B200, 500B
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Username Protected wrote: looking for a newer B200 with Garmin equipment and lightest empty weight possible. "Newer" and "lightest" don't match very well. I'll be really interested in hearing what you find. I have an '81 B200 (first year) and it'll be under 8,000 lbs after I remove the "refreshment center" this summer - but I get to keep my partitions. Later models are nearly 9,000 lbs.
_________________ Be Nice
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Post subject: Re: Best plane for 6 people, 600 nm Posted: 21 Apr 2022, 10:04 |
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Joined: 11/30/12 Posts: 4006 Post Likes: +4410 Location: Santa Fe, NM (KSAF)
Aircraft: B200, 500B
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Username Protected wrote: That doesn't pass my sniff test. I think that might be off by a factor of two. Our CJ on takeoff would burn 1000 lbs/hr per side, sounds right to me.
My bad - I saw "M2" but my brain processed "MU-2." I'll go get more coffee.
_________________ Be Nice
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Post subject: Re: Best plane for 6 people, 600 nm Posted: 21 Apr 2022, 20:57 |
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Joined: 02/09/09 Posts: 5552 Post Likes: +2504 Location: Owosso, MI (KRNP)
Aircraft: 1969 Bonanza V35A
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Username Protected wrote: For instance on take off the M2 is burning around 300 gph. . That doesn't pass my sniff test. I think that might be off by a factor of two.
Note that it's GPH, not PPH.. That's 2000 PPH...
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Post subject: Re: Best plane for 6 people, 600 nm Posted: 21 Apr 2022, 21:18 |
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Joined: 12/30/15 Posts: 1697 Post Likes: +1712 Location: Charlotte
Aircraft: Avanti-Citabria
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Cavernous for 6 people Cabin =5'8" tall 6'0" wide Quieter than a Gulfstream 550...this from giving a ride to my G550 neighbor Heck, the pilots don't really need headsets. There are NO headset jacks anywhere in cabin Burns less fuel than all jets except Turbofan (Eclipse) Baron and Cirrus Jet. ~200 gallons on this 600NM trip for Avanti Burns less fuel and goes 110+ knots faster than King Air Best ride by a mile. If Dr Chuck and Andy and Mike keep pushing their steeds I feel compelled to keep pushing mine.
_________________ I wanna go phastR.....and slowR
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Post subject: Re: Best plane for 6 people, 600 nm Posted: 22 Apr 2022, 11:12 |
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Joined: 09/05/09 Posts: 4082 Post Likes: +2731 Location: Small Town, NC
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Username Protected wrote: Cavernous for 6 people Cabin =5'8" tall 6'0" wide Quieter than a Gulfstream 550...this from giving a ride to my G550 neighbor Heck, the pilots don't really need headsets. There are NO headset jacks anywhere in cabin Burns less fuel than all jets except Turbofan (Eclipse) Baron and Cirrus Jet. ~200 gallons on this 600NM trip for Avanti Burns less fuel and goes 110+ knots faster than King Air Best ride by a mile. If Dr Chuck and Andy and Mike keep pushing their steeds I feel compelled to keep pushing mine. How many were built, and are still flying? How's the maint? is it easy to find a shop, or do you need to go somewhere special?
_________________ "Find worthy causes in your life."
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Post subject: Re: Best plane for 6 people, 600 nm Posted: 24 Apr 2022, 21:31 |
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Joined: 04/30/09 Posts: 1517 Post Likes: +859
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Username Protected wrote: The other issue is 200-500 mile trips are a bit too short. What kind of runway length is required?
_________________ Former Taco Chef Now - Battery Salesman No Engineering Skills I don’t know what I don’t know
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Post subject: Re: Best plane for 6 people, 600 nm Posted: 24 Apr 2022, 23:25 |
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Joined: 11/30/12 Posts: 4006 Post Likes: +4410 Location: Santa Fe, NM (KSAF)
Aircraft: B200, 500B
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Username Protected wrote: This is not a take it in for annual once a year airplane like M600 unfortunately. More like a TBM with stated time and hourly cycle inspections. [...] Never a soul lost in airframe which must help with insurance as mine is reasonable considering I only had ~2,500 total and 400 hours multi time in twin Aerostar. What are the regular major inspections? How much is your insurance (measured in % of hull value?)
_________________ Be Nice
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Post subject: Re: Best plane for 6 people, 600 nm Posted: 25 Apr 2022, 01:55 |
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Joined: 08/05/16 Posts: 3097 Post Likes: +2222 Company: Tack Mobile Location: KBJC
Aircraft: C441
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Username Protected wrote: 209kts TAS sounds excellent! Nice performance out of the 340A. For that 414 trip, what was the TAS? Of course a nice tailwind will make the efficiency look pretty good. My attached panel shot was last week on a trip to Tucson. I got a tailwind both ways…that never happens to me. A ram vii 340 should do 225kts on 35-36gph, I see that at 240. At FL260 (rarely go there due to pressure diff) I am over 230kts in the summer.
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Post subject: Re: Best plane for 6 people, 600 nm Posted: 25 Apr 2022, 06:46 |
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Joined: 12/30/15 Posts: 1697 Post Likes: +1712 Location: Charlotte
Aircraft: Avanti-Citabria
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Username Protected wrote: What are the regular major inspections?
How much is your insurance (measured in % of hull value?) Hourly: 200, 600, 1800,3600 Time: 3 month, 6 month, 2 year, 5 year not positive I listed the shorter times correctly. The shorter 3-6 month items are silly (to a previous piston pilot). Things like fire extinguisher, smoke goggles, life vest inspections. I did land at 3,000 foot runway in Bahamas recently fairly light. This small winged airplane normally needs 4,500 feet or more to get a balanced field. My insurance is around 1.4% of hull with low liability limit currently. If any of you are bored there is an Avanti thread on BT
_________________ I wanna go phastR.....and slowR
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