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29 Mar 2024, 06:35 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Best plane for 6 people, 600 nm
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2022, 09:37 
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Joined: 01/10/17
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Company: Skyhaven Airport Inc
Aircraft: various mid century
Its efficient and fast but I flew the short body MU2 and thought it had no soul. The controls felt the same to me taxiing as at 200knots. Spoilers and spring tension. I was not fond of seating position and having to move the autopilot controls out of the way to get in the seat.
I wanted a rectangular cabin vs circular cross section.

Right to the numbers it performed and even flew slow flight very well. Nothing scary there as long as it’s configured correctly.

But I went for the E90 from the 421B. Moving up from that I though the early 200 did handle nicer than the 90. B200 with Raisbeck leading edges I did not like as much. In the end the E90 is still here in the hangar but the 200 is not. Radio upgrades and removing all cabin partitions got the E90 empty weight down more usable. Why does cabin furnishing have to be so heavy?

See if you can get a ride or even better a good left seat trip in each type with competent right seater to get a feel for things. I’d rather PT-6 than Garrett but not for efficiency or performance. Looked at the 441 real hard after working on and flying Twin Cessnas since I was a kid. but taller cabin and heavier construction of the Kingair Series won out.

Now primary passengers kids and grand kids are getting bigger so back looking for a newer B200 with Garmin equipment and lightest empty weight possible.


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 Post subject: Re: Best plane for 6 people, 600 nm
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2022, 09:43 
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Joined: 11/30/12
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Location: Santa Fe, NM (KSAF)
Aircraft: B200, 500B
Username Protected wrote:
looking for a newer B200 with Garmin equipment and lightest empty weight possible.

"Newer" and "lightest" don't match very well. I'll be really interested in hearing what you find. I have an '81 B200 (first year) and it'll be under 8,000 lbs after I remove the "refreshment center" this summer - but I get to keep my partitions. Later models are nearly 9,000 lbs.

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 Post subject: Re: Best plane for 6 people, 600 nm
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2022, 10:04 
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Location: Santa Fe, NM (KSAF)
Aircraft: B200, 500B
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That doesn't pass my sniff test. I think that might be off by a factor of two.


Our CJ on takeoff would burn 1000 lbs/hr per side, sounds right to me.


My bad - I saw "M2" but my brain processed "MU-2." I'll go get more coffee.
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 Post subject: Re: Best plane for 6 people, 600 nm
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2022, 12:28 
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Joined: 08/16/15
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Location: Ogden UT
Aircraft: Piper M600
Yep. Throwing $20 bills out the window about as fast as you can get them 1 at a time from your wallet.

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 Post subject: Re: Best plane for 6 people, 600 nm
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2022, 12:46 
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Location: Ogden UT
Aircraft: Piper M600
Going to take a trip from Utah to SC this weekend in the M600. 1500nm. Not much help from mother nature with headwinds to Kansas and only 12 average knots on the tail. Uggh. Showing 225 gallons non-stop. Driving is 2000 sm. Can’t drive my SUV much more cheaply. That is pretty efficient. Will have 3-6 in the plane. Over 4 peeps and will have to leave a little fuel behind and plan a stop.

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 Post subject: Re: Best plane for 6 people, 600 nm
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2022, 20:57 
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Username Protected wrote:
For instance on take off the M2 is burning around 300 gph. ;-).

That doesn't pass my sniff test. I think that might be off by a factor of two.


Note that it's GPH, not PPH.. That's 2000 PPH...

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 Post subject: Re: Best plane for 6 people, 600 nm
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2022, 21:18 
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Joined: 12/30/15
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Location: Charlotte
Aircraft: Avanti-Citabria
Cavernous for 6 people
Cabin =5'8" tall
6'0" wide

Quieter than a Gulfstream 550...this from giving a ride to my G550 neighbor :D
Heck, the pilots don't really need headsets. There are NO headset jacks anywhere in cabin :D

Burns less fuel than all jets except Turbofan (Eclipse) Baron and Cirrus Jet.
~200 gallons on this 600NM trip for Avanti

Burns less fuel and goes 110+ knots faster than King Air

Best ride by a mile.

If Dr Chuck and Andy and Mike keep pushing their steeds I feel compelled to keep pushing mine.

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 Post subject: Re: Best plane for 6 people, 600 nm
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2022, 22:03 
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Joined: 08/16/15
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Hey we are all just jealous. Gorgeous plane. Been OK on the maintenance side?

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 Post subject: Re: Best plane for 6 people, 600 nm
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2022, 11:12 
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Username Protected wrote:
Cavernous for 6 people
Cabin =5'8" tall
6'0" wide

Quieter than a Gulfstream 550...this from giving a ride to my G550 neighbor :D
Heck, the pilots don't really need headsets. There are NO headset jacks anywhere in cabin :D

Burns less fuel than all jets except Turbofan (Eclipse) Baron and Cirrus Jet.
~200 gallons on this 600NM trip for Avanti

Burns less fuel and goes 110+ knots faster than King Air

Best ride by a mile.

If Dr Chuck and Andy and Mike keep pushing their steeds I feel compelled to keep pushing mine.


How many were built, and are still flying? How's the maint? is it easy to find a shop, or do you need to go somewhere special?

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 Post subject: Re: Best plane for 6 people, 600 nm
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2022, 21:04 
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Aircraft: Avanti-Citabria
I go to an Avanti guru (SAI) in Greenville,SC.
The other major spot is IntercontinentalJet in Tulsa, OK.

This is not a take it in for annual once a year airplane like M600 unfortunately.
More like a TBM with stated time and hourly cycle inspections.

I think any good mechanic along with an involved owner could partner with the gurus to keep the Avanti on home base all but once a year.

As far as things breaking I have been pleasantly surprised. My only issue has been minor and Proline 21 Avionics related.

The other issue is 200-500 mile trips are a bit too short

Also I forgot to mention cabin pressure differential of 9.0 and two redundant pressurization controllers.
Which means at FL390 I am riding in a 6,000 foot cabin

I have been told 213 flying
Never a soul lost in airframe which must help with insurance as mine is reasonable considering I only had ~2,500 total and 400 hours multi time in twin Aerostar.

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 Post subject: Re: Best plane for 6 people, 600 nm
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2022, 21:31 
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Username Protected wrote:
The other issue is 200-500 mile trips are a bit too short.


What kind of runway length is required?

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 Post subject: Re: Best plane for 6 people, 600 nm
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2022, 23:25 
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Joined: 11/30/12
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Location: Santa Fe, NM (KSAF)
Aircraft: B200, 500B
Username Protected wrote:
This is not a take it in for annual once a year airplane like M600 unfortunately.
More like a TBM with stated time and hourly cycle inspections.
[...]
Never a soul lost in airframe which must help with insurance as mine is reasonable considering I only had ~2,500 total and 400 hours multi time in twin Aerostar.

What are the regular major inspections?

How much is your insurance (measured in % of hull value?)

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 Post subject: Re: Best plane for 6 people, 600 nm
PostPosted: 25 Apr 2022, 01:55 
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Company: Tack Mobile
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Username Protected wrote:
209kts TAS sounds excellent! Nice performance out of the 340A. For that 414 trip, what was the TAS? Of course a nice tailwind will make the efficiency look pretty good.
My attached panel shot was last week on a trip to Tucson. I got a tailwind both ways…that never happens to me.


A ram vii 340 should do 225kts on 35-36gph, I see that at 240. At FL260 (rarely go there due to pressure diff) I am over 230kts in the summer.


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 Post subject: Re: Best plane for 6 people, 600 nm
PostPosted: 25 Apr 2022, 06:46 
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Joined: 12/30/15
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Location: Charlotte
Aircraft: Avanti-Citabria
Username Protected wrote:
What are the regular major inspections?

How much is your insurance (measured in % of hull value?)


Hourly: 200, 600, 1800,3600

Time: 3 month, 6 month, 2 year, 5 year

not positive I listed the shorter times correctly.

The shorter 3-6 month items are silly (to a previous piston pilot).
Things like fire extinguisher, smoke goggles, life vest inspections.

I did land at 3,000 foot runway in Bahamas recently fairly light.
This small winged airplane normally needs 4,500 feet or more to get a balanced field.

My insurance is around 1.4% of hull with low liability limit currently.

If any of you are bored there is an Avanti thread on BT

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 Post subject: Re: Best plane for 6 people, 600 nm
PostPosted: 25 Apr 2022, 18:28 
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Andy mentioned the Eclipse. Are those viable again? Will they ever be produced again?

Seems like the Eclipse was the Vision Jet that almost was.


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