25 Apr 2024, 07:55 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Cessna 421c or 414AW for comfort Posted: 08 Mar 2022, 16:57 |
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Joined: 11/25/16 Posts: 1826 Post Likes: +1401 Location: 2IS
Aircraft: C501
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Username Protected wrote: Rocky this is the one sentence that I MUST say in this lifetime. I can say the same thing - the difference is that presumably, Rocky's planes are able to fly Haha good point Jeff.
Ok..I would like to be able to say that I have too many airworthy airplanes.
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Post subject: Re: Cessna 421c or 414AW for comfort Posted: 08 Mar 2022, 17:48 |
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Joined: 08/21/14 Posts: 280 Post Likes: +86 Location: KPDK
Aircraft: C421B MU2-40 Solitai
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If you want a potty and a quieter cabin get a long body. Btw, a 421 is a fairly quiet plane, but everyone should wear headsets. All of these planes will damage your hearing without headsets. If you insist on not wearing headsets, get a big jet.
_________________ Sandy
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Post subject: Re: Cessna 421c or 414AW for comfort Posted: 08 Mar 2022, 17:53 |
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Joined: 08/05/16 Posts: 3110 Post Likes: +2226 Company: Tack Mobile Location: KBJC
Aircraft: C441
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Username Protected wrote: If you want a potty and a quieter cabin get a long body. Btw, a 421 is a fairly quiet plane, but everyone should wear headsets. All of these planes will damage your hearing without headsets. If you insist on not wearing headsets, get a big jet. 421C will not damage your hearing. 441 is louder in the back at about 86db in the rear seat, and people don't usually wear headsets back there. I don't have numbers on a 421 but it is quieter. OSHA says it is safe to work 8 hours a day, every day at 85db with no hearing protection. I would guess a 421C at cruise is 83-84dBA (?) in the back seat. Maybe you could check with an iPhone app, I'd be curious. The 340 is about 90db in the cockpit and headsets are required. 90dbA is perceptually MUCH louder than 85. Standing next to the 441 engine on the ramp is about one trillion DBa.
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Post subject: Re: Cessna 421c or 414AW for comfort Posted: 16 Mar 2022, 21:45 |
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Joined: 11/30/12 Posts: 4006 Post Likes: +4411 Location: Santa Fe, NM (KSAF)
Aircraft: B200, 500B
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Username Protected wrote: You don’t see many going the other way. Just ask the most famous twin Cessna driver ever, Jerry. I'd say the most famous TC driver ever is Jerry.....Temple. And yes, he'd agree to go straight to the 421. The other Jerry is infamous.
_________________ Be Nice
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Post subject: Re: Cessna 421c or 414AW for comfort Posted: 30 Mar 2022, 13:34 |
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Joined: 04/30/09 Posts: 1517 Post Likes: +859
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I am flying a 414 currently, and I’ve flown in the passenger cabin of this one, as well as a 421C. Honestly, I don’t see a lot of difference regarding noise in the cabin with a headset off. Yes, it’s different, but not mega thousands of dollars different.
Either airplane could have conversations in the rear seats without a headset, without yelling. I don’t recommend no headsets, but it’s doable.
In the cockpit, when sitting closer to the spinning noise makers, yes, the 421 is noticeably quieter, but then, I hope folks are wearing headsets up front! They all sound the same with a proper ANR headset.
Don’t let anybody fool you about the power. Yes, a 421 is slightly more powerful than a RAM VI or VII in a 414 (335 hp * 12% = 375 hp in the 421), but they both are extremely marginal for a worst case engine loss. For that 12% more power, the 421 is significantly heavier, so you not getting “12%” better performance. Maybe 3-7% better performance.
Another metric: the heaviest 421C with trailing link gear can be 5329+ empty and 7579 MTOW with VGs and have a useful load of 2250-ish. The 414 that I fly weighs slightly over 4450 empty (a huge difference in weight) and has a MTOW of 6750 with RAM VI.
Useful load: Cessna 421C - 2250 pounds Cessna 414 - - 2300 pounds
Almost identical useful load between 414 and 421C….
12% more power is hauling around up to almost 900 pounds more weight empty, and over 800 pounds at MTOW.
Don’t overlook the far less costly to acquire 414 or 421B. Yes, there’s a reason they are cheaper than a 414A(W) or a 421C, but for the price differential in the current market, they offer virtually all the performance without the bigger price tag.
There’s lots written about the differences, so I won’t belabor that. I can sum up up with:
1) fuel management and fuel hardware maintenance
2) hydraulic landing gear, some with trailing link
3) better wing for higher altitude (above FL200) flying.
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_________________ Former Taco Chef Now - Battery Salesman No Engineering Skills I don’t know what I don’t know
Last edited on 30 Mar 2022, 18:03, edited 4 times in total.
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Post subject: Re: Cessna 421c or 414AW for comfort Posted: 01 Apr 2022, 00:26 |
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Joined: 07/29/12 Posts: 66 Post Likes: +29
Aircraft: GV IV 680 LRJET 690A
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Sorry but a 5329+ 421C is not uncommon it is not the norm. However, every 84 or 85 I've seen has been a heavy pig. Most people selling those years try to pitch those years as the best there is, and its bullshit. They sat outside for two years with some sort of pickling to stop corrosion while the factory was down. The trailing link gear is the biggest hyped up load of crap, probably pushed by Jerry Temple. It is not needed. If you need it you suck at flying. It ads weight and because of said "hype" is for some reason more expensive. The absolute best 421C to get is the 77-79 years of 421C and the 76 is next. They are light weight compared to TL's.
I have a 77 that has an empty weight of 4776. It has a 1200lb useful load with full 271 gallons of long range fuel.
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Post subject: Re: Cessna 421c or 414AW for comfort Posted: 02 Apr 2022, 15:08 |
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Joined: 12/18/12 Posts: 787 Post Likes: +399 Location: Europe
Aircraft: Aerostar 600A
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Username Protected wrote: Sorry but a 5329+ 421C is not uncommon it is not the norm. However, every 84 or 85 I've seen has been a heavy pig. Most people selling those years try to pitch those years as the best there is, and its bullshit. They sat outside for two years with some sort of pickling to stop corrosion while the factory was down. The trailing link gear is the biggest hyped up load of crap, probably pushed by Jerry Temple. It is not needed. If you need it you suck at flying. It ads weight and because of said "hype" is for some reason more expensive. The absolute best 421C to get is the 77-79 years of 421C and the 76 is next. They are light weight compared to TL's.
+1 !
_________________ A&P/IA P35 Aerostar 600A
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Post subject: Re: Cessna 421c or 414AW for comfort Posted: 05 Apr 2022, 08:10 |
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Joined: 08/22/12 Posts: 523 Post Likes: +281
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Ryan I totally agree about the TL gear being a negative due to UL penalty. Our ‘76 has a UL of 2450!!! But I was wondering why you differentiate the 77-79 as better than the ‘76 model year. There weren’t any major differences.
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Post subject: Re: Cessna 421c or 414AW for comfort Posted: 05 Apr 2022, 08:11 |
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Joined: 08/22/12 Posts: 523 Post Likes: +281
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Ryan I totally agree about the TL gear being a negative due to UL penalty. Our ‘76 has a UL of 2450!!! But I was wondering why you differentiate the 77-79 as better than the ‘76 model year. There weren’t any major differences.
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Post subject: Re: Cessna 421c or 414AW for comfort Posted: 05 Apr 2022, 13:10 |
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Joined: 01/24/10 Posts: 6758 Post Likes: +4423 Location: Concord , CA (KCCR)
Aircraft: 1967 Baron B55
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Username Protected wrote: Hi Gerald,
Are you sure about the TL 421C having a longer SPAR life then the non TLs. I couldn't find a reference that separates C models.
(2) For Models 421B and 421C airplanes, do an initial detailed visual inspection following the instructions specified in paragraph (g) of this AD at whichever of the compliance times in paragraphs (i)(2)(i) or (ii) of this AD occurs later. See figures 3 and 4 to paragraph (i)(2) of this AD for examples. (i) Before or upon accumulating 12,000 hours TIS on the carry through spar cap; or (ii) Within the next 50 hours TIS after February 28, 2018 (the effective date retained from AD 2018-03-03). I have 5 421C’s in my hangars. A 1976, through 1982. There is a 4,000 hour difference? Between the straight leg and the TL’s in the SB. According to Peter
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Post subject: Re: Cessna 421c or 414AW for comfort Posted: 03 Jul 2022, 13:47 |
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Joined: 03/09/21 Posts: 36 Post Likes: +26
Aircraft: C421
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Username Protected wrote: I would guess a 421C at cruise is 83-84dBA (?) in the back seat. Maybe you could check with an iPhone app, I'd be curious.
The 340 is about 90db in the cockpit and headsets are required. 90dbA is perceptually MUCH louder than 85. Standing next to the 441 engine on the ramp is about one trillion DBa.
I measured 77.5 dB in the back of our 421C turning 1800 rpm. (iPhone app)
I measured 78.8 dB in first class on an Airbus A220.
We all wear headsets. After shooting guns and being around airplanes my whole life, I try very hard to keep the little bit of hearing I have left.
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