banner
banner

25 May 2022, 12:04 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Garmin International (Banner)



Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: Chinese Effective Control of ICON Aircraft Saga Continues
PostPosted: 28 Jan 2022, 18:53 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 08/08/12
Posts: 273
Post Likes: +122
Location: KSGR Sugar Land
Aircraft: 1980 M20J Missile300
https://www.flyingmag.com/icons-new-ceo-former-ceo-differ-on-foreign-investment-probe/

This article says Chinese State owned Shanghai Pudong Science and Technology Investment Co. (PDSTI) has acquired 46.7%. An article last year said PDSTI was the majority owner.

https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/icon-stockholders-sue-to-block-alleged-illegal-technology-transfer-to-china/

Either way they control.

Pushed founder out. Founder, ex-board member Phil Condit and minority owners are suing in multiple suits. Now they are getting the US govt involved however not sure what good that will do now.

What American owned piston GA manufacturer remains other than Texton Cessna? (Their Beech division hadn’t built a piston this year).


Top

 Post subject: Re: Chinese Effective Control of ICON Aircraft Saga Continue
PostPosted: 28 Jan 2022, 20:41 
Online



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 04/26/13
Posts: 13971
Post Likes: +12740
Location: Columbus , IN (KBAK)
Aircraft: 1968 Baron D55
It all sounds great until you lose control.

You sell your soul…

_________________
My last name rhymes with 'geese'.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Chinese Effective Control of ICON Aircraft Saga Continue
PostPosted: 28 Jan 2022, 21:10 
Online


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 03/30/11
Posts: 3676
Post Likes: +2023
Location: Greenwood, MO
Aircraft: none
When I hear about Chinese investors buying out US companies and large swaths of farmland, I wonder if there is a breaking point somewhere ahead. At what point does foreign ownership of assets in a country become a threat to sovereignty?


Top

 Post subject: Re: Chinese Effective Control of ICON Aircraft Saga Continue
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2022, 00:56 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 08/08/12
Posts: 273
Post Likes: +122
Location: KSGR Sugar Land
Aircraft: 1980 M20J Missile300
Username Protected wrote:
When I hear about Chinese investors buying out US companies and large swaths of farmland, I wonder if there is a breaking point somewhere ahead. At what point does foreign ownership of assets in a country become a threat to sovereignty?

Apparently there isn't a "breaking point" when it comes to General Aviation. Maybe because, as important as we might think it is, it doesn't really mean much to the public and greater economy and isn't seen as a threat to sovereignty.

Chinese owned or controlled: Superior Air Parts, Mattituck, Continental Aerospace Technologies (which also bought Thielert Aircraft Engines and just rebrands them as CD-155 and 135), Glasair Aviation, Cirrus Aviation, ICON Aircraft, Enstrom Helicopter and Mooney (the Chinese still own a minority interest with unknown rights in what appears to have been a cashless deal to flip the company - which failed and is now being peddled on the web (https://www.bizquest.com/business-for-sale/legendary-aircraft-manufacturer/BW1902593/))

Planning to buy a Diamond to avoid China?...think again - It is owned by Chinese interests

You can buy a Piper to avoid China - it is owned by the Government of Brunei (that would be the Sultan of Brunei since it is not a democracy....)

That leaves Cessna and Lycoming in US hands .....for now.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Chinese Effective Control of ICON Aircraft Saga Continue
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2022, 10:52 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 05/25/12
Posts: 1149
Post Likes: +362
Location: KGWW & KSUT
Aircraft: V35B
Sad to see this.

_________________
Greg


Top

 Post subject: Re: Chinese Effective Control of ICON Aircraft Saga Continue
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2022, 22:33 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/18/13
Posts: 396
Post Likes: +264
Location: Tampa, FL
Aircraft: 2020 Gamebird GB1
Username Protected wrote:
When I hear about Chinese investors buying out US companies and large swaths of farmland, I wonder if there is a breaking point somewhere ahead. At what point does foreign ownership of assets in a country become a threat to sovereignty?

Apparently there isn't a "breaking point" when it comes to General Aviation. Maybe because, as important as we might think it is, it doesn't really mean much to the public and greater economy and isn't seen as a threat to sovereignty.

Chinese owned or controlled: Superior Air Parts, Mattituck, Continental Aerospace Technologies (which also bought Thielert Aircraft Engines and just rebrands them as CD-155 and 135), Glasair Aviation, Cirrus Aviation, ICON Aircraft, Enstrom Helicopter and Mooney (the Chinese still own a minority interest with unknown rights in what appears to have been a cashless deal to flip the company - which failed and is now being peddled on the web (https://www.bizquest.com/business-for-sale/legendary-aircraft-manufacturer/BW1902593/))

Planning to buy a Diamond to avoid China?...think again - It is owned by Chinese interests

You can buy a Piper to avoid China - it is owned by the Government of Brunei (that would be the Sultan of Brunei since it is not a democracy....)

That leaves Cessna and Lycoming in US hands .....for now.


Game Composites, Inc, Gamebird GB1, Bentonville, AR.

Butch
_________________
The only way to make more time is to go faster.
2020 Gamebird GB1
2015 Lockwood AirCam
KTPF/KVDF


Top

 Post subject: Re: Chinese Effective Control of ICON Aircraft Saga Continue
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2022, 23:36 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 05/08/09
Posts: 6494
Post Likes: +3516
Location: Stuart, FL (KSUA)
Aircraft: 1967 Bonanza V35
Username Protected wrote:
When I hear about Chinese investors buying out US companies and large swaths of farmland, I wonder if there is a breaking point somewhere ahead. At what point did foreign ownership of assets in a country become a threat to sovereignty?


People too busy distracted with Donkey and Elephant enemies to notice the real one is slithering in for the kill.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Chinese Effective Control of ICON Aircraft Saga Continue
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2022, 23:57 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 08/08/12
Posts: 273
Post Likes: +122
Location: KSGR Sugar Land
Aircraft: 1980 M20J Missile300
Username Protected wrote:
Apparently there isn't a "breaking point" when it comes to General Aviation. Maybe because, as important as we might think it is, it doesn't really mean much to the public and greater economy and isn't seen as a threat to sovereignty.

Chinese owned or controlled: Superior Air Parts, Mattituck, Continental Aerospace Technologies (which also bought Thielert Aircraft Engines and just rebrands them as CD-155 and 135), Glasair Aviation, Cirrus Aviation, ICON Aircraft, Enstrom Helicopter and Mooney (the Chinese still own a minority interest with unknown rights in what appears to have been a cashless deal to flip the company - which failed and is now being peddled on the web (https://www.bizquest.com/business-for-sale/legendary-aircraft-manufacturer/BW1902593/))

Planning to buy a Diamond to avoid China?...think again - It is owned by Chinese interests

You can buy a Piper to avoid China - it is owned by the Government of Brunei (that would be the Sultan of Brunei since it is not a democracy....)

That leaves Cessna and Lycoming in US hands .....for now.


Game Composites, Inc, Gamebird GB1, Bentonville, AR.

Butch

The only problem with that is Gamebird is a British company and not a US company. The parent is Game Composites Limited. 56 Queens Gate, London. It was designed, developed and tested in the UK. That is where the intellectual property is located. Bentonville is just a licensee the at assembles the planes. The aircraft is built under license by Game Composites LLC. They own no intellectual property.

Back on the subject of American aircraft companies sold to foreign owners, Waco Aircraft is now owned by a German Company Dimor Group.

Top

 Post subject: Re: Chinese Effective Control of ICON Aircraft Saga Continue
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2022, 07:55 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/22/07
Posts: 10415
Post Likes: +9954
Company: Midwest Chemtrails LLC
Location: KPTK (SE Michigan)
Aircraft: C205
Maule?

_________________
!neercs eht dniheb deppart ma I !PLEH


Top

 Post subject: Re: Chinese Effective Control of ICON Aircraft Saga Continue
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2022, 09:41 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 07/23/09
Posts: 960
Post Likes: +414
Location: KSJT
Aircraft: PC12NG Champ
Username Protected wrote:
The only problem with that is Gamebird is a British company and not a US company. The parent is Game Composites Limited. 56 Queens Gate, London. It was designed, developed and tested in the UK. That is where the intellectual property is located. Bentonville is just a licensee the at assembles the planes. The aircraft is built under license by Game Composites LLC. They own no intellectual property.


David,
Game Composites Limited is ultimately owned in the US. It was based in the UK because the lead designer (and the rest of his team) were living there.

They have some exciting things going on outside of the GB1 and I don’t think the Chinese will ever be involved in the company because of GB’s funding source. :)

https://gamecomposites.com/history/


Top

 Post subject: Re: Chinese Effective Control of ICON Aircraft Saga Continue
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2022, 10:26 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 08/08/12
Posts: 273
Post Likes: +122
Location: KSGR Sugar Land
Aircraft: 1980 M20J Missile300
Username Protected wrote:
Maule?

True - they appear to be a family owned business in Georgia. According to GAMA Aircraft Shipments they haven’t built or sold a plane since 2016 when they sold the last 3 planes that year.

Correction- A search of the registration database shows the Maule has built a few more
2016 - 3
2017 - 2
2018 - 4
2019 - 1
2020 - 0
2021 - 5


Last edited on 30 Jan 2022, 10:53, edited 1 time in total.

Top

 Post subject: Re: Chinese Effective Control of ICON Aircraft Saga Continue
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2022, 10:43 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 04/06/11
Posts: 5979
Post Likes: +2650
Aircraft: Warbirds
Username Protected wrote:
The only problem with that is Gamebird is a British company and not a US company. The parent is Game Composites Limited. 56 Queens Gate, London. It was designed, developed and tested in the UK. That is where the intellectual property is located. Bentonville is just a licensee the at assembles the planes. The aircraft is built under license by Game Composites LLC. They own no intellectual property.


David,
Game Composites Limited is ultimately owned in the US. It was based in the UK because the lead designer (and the rest of his team) were living there.

They have some exciting things going on outside of the GB1 and I don’t think the Chinese will ever be involved in the company because of GB’s funding source. :)

https://gamecomposites.com/history/

Steuart Walton was flying his TBM850 back and forth across the Atlantic in the early days of this endeavor. He has a degree in engineering and contributed to the design of the GB1.
Also was involved with the family business, Walmart in the UK.

Gamebird is definitely a US business.
_________________
Be careful what you ask for, your mechanic wants to sleep at night.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Chinese Effective Control of ICON Aircraft Saga Continue
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2022, 10:47 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 05/13/14
Posts: 7134
Post Likes: +5398
Location: Central Texas (KTPL)
Aircraft: '78 Bonanza A36
Am I in the minority thinking that Icon has been poorly run from the beginning? The product is fine for what it is, but why all the drama around this company?


Top

 Post subject: Re: Chinese Effective Control of ICON Aircraft Saga Continue
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2022, 12:30 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 08/08/12
Posts: 273
Post Likes: +122
Location: KSGR Sugar Land
Aircraft: 1980 M20J Missile300
Username Protected wrote:
Am I in the minority thinking that Icon has been poorly run from the beginning? The product is fine for what it is, but why all the drama around this company?

Completely overhyped. Original “any idiot can fly it” marketing (and they did). Halliday crash while flying in drugs. Chief test pilot and lead engineer killed flying it in late 2017 well after certified and selling.

Claimed to have 1,500 preorders in 2015 when manufacturing and actual sales began yet have only sold about 250 since then according to registrations.

https://www.inc.com/will-yakowicz/icon-aircraft-a5-fool-proof-consumer-sports-plane-hits-the-market.html

The plane is completely useless in more than half the US. Who needs an amphibious plane in the arid West with drying up lakes, the few there are. It needs soft beaches or a dock. I have only seen one in Houston where there is lots of water in flying distance.

Registrations show they sold 15 in 2021. Maybe more were shipped to China that don’t show up.

At least when Cessna was overhyping planes in the 50’s they were actually selling in significant numbers.


Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Chinese Effective Control of ICON Aircraft Saga Continue
PostPosted: 31 Jan 2022, 11:46 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 10/18/11
Posts: 814
Post Likes: +446
Aircraft: Seabee Aerostar 700
Username Protected wrote:
Am I in the minority thinking that Icon has been poorly run from the beginning? The product is fine for what it is, but why all the drama around this company?



the aircraft was aimed at a recreational market. (think personal watercraft) recreational markets are noteworthily fickle look at the history of snowmobiles , small outboards etc.

if they survive after the initial infatuation by the public there must be a long term use for the device that generally involve it being used for something other than just running around. like for boats, fishing, skiing transportation around lakes.

Icon also requires knowledge and skill unlike an ATV or Utv where any idiot can buy one and go out and kill themselves. with out government approval.

on our lake there are a huge number of personal watercraft just sitting after the first year of running around in circles.

with the Icon's folding wing if it had a useful load of 600 lbs with full fuel (two people and stuff) it would be a very useful small runabout aircraft.

the aircraft should fly fine at 2000 lbs gross or so and could be very useful for someone in the boonies.

the other problem with the icon is it does not handle big waves very well. whenever I ask them what happens when it hits a 1 ft high boat wake they refuse to answer.


Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next



PWI, Inc. (Banner)

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2022

.aopa-85x200.png.
.chairmanaviation-85x50.jpg.
.blr-85x200.jpg.
.ei-85x150.jpg.
.jetshades-85x150.png.
.instar.jpg.
.traceaviation-85x150.png.
.Rocky-Mountain-Turbine-85x100.jpg.
.concorde.jpg.
.ssv-85x50.jpg.
.camguard.jpg.
.avfab-85x50-2018-12-04.png.
.gallagher_85x50.jpg.
.Marsh.jpg.
.dbm.jpg.
.bkool-85x50-2014-08-04.jpg.
.airpower-85x50.jpg.
.EagleFuelCellsTriple.jpg.
.centex-85x50.jpg.
.CiESVer2.jpg.
.wilco-85x100.png.
.komn-85x50.png.
.wat-85x50.jpg.
.saint-85x50.jpg.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.Davis_Aviation_85x50.jpg.
.kingairacademy-85x100.png.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.
.Wentworth_85x100.JPG.
.blackwell-85x50.png.
.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.blackhawk-85x100-2019-09-25.jpg.
.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.kadex-85x50.jpg.
.airmart-85x150.png.
.STLAir_85x50.jpg.
.tat-85x100.png.
.greenwich-85x50-2020-08-10.jpg.
.SCA.jpg.
.AAI.jpg.
.avionicssource-85x50.jpg.
.echelon-85x50.png.
.Foreflight_85x50_color.png.
.tempest.jpg.
.Latitude.jpg.
.jandsaviation-85x50.jpg.
.sierratrax-85x50.png.
.stanmusikame-85x50.jpg.
.Expert_Aircraft_Solution_85x50.jpg.
.KalAir_Black.jpg.
.jetacq-85x50.jpg.
.kingairdom.jpg.
.bpt-85x50-2019-07-27.jpg.
.forge-85x50.jpg.
.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.aircraftassociates-85x50.png.
.garmin-85x200-2021-11-22.jpg.
.xnaut-85x50.jpg.
.daytona.jpg.
.dshannon.jpg.
.ps_engineering.gif.
.Genesys_85x50.jpg.
.avionwealth-85x50.png.
.cav-85x50.jpg.
.nexus-85x50.jpg.