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07 Aug 2022, 20:25 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: PA-46TP engine failures
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2022, 13:20 
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Joined: 01/14/09
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Location: Boise, ID
Aircraft: 06 Meridian,SuperCub
In my situation, I wasn't out of runway. I didn't even try the MOR precisely because I didn't want to run out of runway. What if the MOR worked, for a bit, but you blew the engine or it stopped again, you look down, and now your out of runway? This is my whole point. If you have the runway, get the plane down. I don't see why one would mess with the MOR at ~200 AGL with runway.


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 Post subject: Re: PA-46TP engine failures
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2022, 13:50 
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Joined: 11/09/13
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Location: Camarillo, Ca.
Aircraft: 2005 Meridian
Username Protected wrote:
In my situation, I wasn't out of runway. I didn't even try the MOR precisely because I didn't want to run out of runway. What if the MOR worked, for a bit, but you blew the engine or it stopped again, you look down, and now your out of runway? This is my whole point. If you have the runway, get the plane down. I don't see why one would mess with the MOR at ~200 AGL with runway.


+1 100% agreed!
If you can land on a runway do it.


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 Post subject: Re: PA-46TP engine failures
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2022, 01:27 
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Joined: 08/16/15
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Location: Ogden UT
Aircraft: Piper M600
Looking into this, sounds like Pratt keeps 2 sets of data. The one we are more familiar with is the shutdown rate related to the engine and Pratt parts. That is the BASIC inflight shutdown rate, which for the PT6 is better than 1 in 650,000 hours and climbing. Shut downs related to airframer parts which are also important to the pilot, are lumped into TOTAL inflight shut downs. trying to get that information is more challenging, but those total IFSD numbers are still pretty good, better than 1 in 200,000 hours, but obviously airframe and engine dependent, as they are impacted by airframer modifications.

Total IFSD's are going to be much higher in twins, as twins are more than twice as likely to lose an engine (see other related threads for the complex math). And in the case of the PT6, maintenance requirements and specs for the SE are more stringent than for the ME Parts. Additionally, the SE has the MOR lever to take over for FCU failures, and nuisance alarms that are not real, like faulty oil or temperature sensors, bouncing gauges etc, or even a real dying engine may precipitate a precautionary shut down in a multi, whereas in a single, the pilot will likely run the engine all the way into a precautionary landing.

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Chuck Ivester
Piper M600
Ogden UT


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 Post subject: Re: PA-46TP engine failures
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2022, 09:19 
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Joined: 05/29/09
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Company: Craft Air Services, LLC
Location: Hertford, NC
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Username Protected wrote:
If you have a roll back due to FCU malfunction/anomaly the MOR will restore power. Not sure how you can have a roll back (engine running at idle but running) without an FCU issue.


I've had a few. The most common reason has been a clogged airframe fuel filter. A blocked fuel tank vent would show the same behavior. Other things that can cause those issues are anything that causes a loss of pneumatic pressure (many failure points), broken/disconnected power lever linkage (spring loaded to idle), and strangely enough a wonky flow divider valve can cause some really strange behavior.

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 Post subject: Re: PA-46TP engine failures
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2022, 18:02 
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Joined: 11/15/17
Posts: 263
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Company: Cessna (retired)
Username Protected wrote:
Looking into this, sounds like Pratt keeps 2 sets of data. The one we are more familiar with is the shutdown rate related to the engine and Pratt parts. That is the BASIC inflight shutdown rate, which for the PT6 is better than 1 in 650,000 hours and climbing. Shut downs related to airframer parts which are also important to the pilot, are lumped into TOTAL inflight shut downs. trying to get that information is more challenging, but those total IFSD numbers are still pretty good, better than 1 in 200,000 hours, but obviously airframe and engine dependent, as they are impacted by airframer modifications.

Total IFSD's are going to be much higher in twins, as twins are more than twice as likely to lose an engine (see other related threads for the complex math). And in the case of the PT6, maintenance requirements and specs for the SE are more stringent than for the ME Parts. Additionally, the SE has the MOR lever to take over for FCU failures, and nuisance alarms that are not real, like faulty oil or temperature sensors, bouncing gauges etc, or even a real dying engine may precipitate a precautionary shut down in a multi, whereas in a single, the pilot will likely run the engine all the way into a precautionary landing.


When I was working at Cessna all we got was the chargeable shutdowns. In addition to non-chargeable, Pratt of course cannot include shutdowns nobody tells them about. We got every shutdown and removal from the T-47 fleet (Maintenance was Cessna managed per Navy requirements) and there was a big difference.


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