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13 Aug 2022, 20:49 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: What is the fastest/fuel-efficient airplane, supports UL94?
PostPosted: 08 Jan 2022, 12:27 
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Joined: 03/03/14
Posts: 118
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Location: KPAO
Aircraft: MU-2, R44
Mission: I recently traded our Berkut for an MU-2, which is our family dream airplane. I do miss the fun of maneuvering flying. And the Mu doesn't make much sense to fly by myself for short trips. For example, about twelve times a year I fly by myself from KPAO-KSMO for a meeting, and KSMO has ridiculous fees for turbines. I'd love there to be less friction to go to fly-ins or go fly see local friends for lunch. I don't expect to reach the Berkut's 215kts at 8.5 gph, but want to optimize for both as much as practical.

Some friends are interested in my putting together a partnership for us to own a small airplane to be based at KPAO. The goal is to create a social club. We'll make the hangar comfortable and install a bar. We'll likely share the hangar with an R44/R66 helicopter I'm also putting a partnership together for.

For the airplane, I think something that can run UL94 would be attractive. I realize we'll take a hit on performance, but two benefits: we could buy our own gas, and insurance against the risk of a local 100LL ban or price hike (already imminent at our neighbor KRHV).

Two seats okay. Tailwheel okay, though a tricycle would make the partnership more accessible. Doesn't have to be a bush plane since we'll have the helicopter for camping. Experimental okay, but I prefer a certified airplane to reduce the time involved managing maintenance.

Would love to hear your ideas. :dancing:

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 Post subject: Re: What is the fastest/fuel-efficient airplane, supports UL
PostPosted: 08 Jan 2022, 12:33 
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Joined: 10/05/11
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Company: Power/mation
Location: Milwaukee, WI (KMKE)
Aircraft: 1963 Debonair B33
For 94UL, look for Lyco 260 powered airplanes. Since you have EX-AB experience, maybe an RV10.

The 260 Commanche came to mind, too.

If you want to drop down to lower octane, the Debonair with the IO-470-K is a fit. I get 145 KTAS LOP @ 10-12 GPH. Faster if I want to push more fuel through it. I think there are some Debs that might even do a little better.

Just saw you said 2 seats OK. Hmmm, I need to think about this one... fast, 2 seat, trike, 94ul, certified is an interesting combination.

I might start by Googling the recent news about Lycoming and unleaded approvals and see what comes up.

One more edit, making some assumptions about your resources, check out the Pipistrel Panthera.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the fastest/fuel-efficient airplane, supports UL
PostPosted: 08 Jan 2022, 15:07 
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Joined: 01/30/09
Posts: 2956
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Location: $ilicon Vall€y
Aircraft: Columbia 400
Ones that come to mind:

Early Piper Arrow with the 180hp engine and the small rectangular wing. They are surprisingly fast, economical and the parallel valve engine is UL94 capable. They don't have much rear legroom, since they don't have the fuselage extension of the 200hp model. The 200hp is slower... and the taper wing even slower.

Grumman Tiger.

I can't figure out whether the DA40 is UL94 capable or not.

Then there are the rare diesels aircraft, like the DA42 twin.

I'd be interested in partnering on a DA42 in the right situation. I think it will just do what I need.

I'm spoiled with the Columbia 400. Really hard to top that one.


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 Post subject: Re: What is the fastest/fuel-efficient airplane, supports UL
PostPosted: 08 Jan 2022, 15:26 
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Joined: 02/27/19
Posts: 138
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Company: OwnShip Technology
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Aircraft: C90A/C33/P68C/PA32RT
We just bought an IO-470 Debonair for very similar reasons.


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 Post subject: Re: What is the fastest/fuel-efficient airplane, supports UL
PostPosted: 08 Jan 2022, 15:40 
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Joined: 01/09/14
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Location: San Jose, CA (KRHV)
Aircraft: DA40
Username Protected wrote:
I can't figure out whether the DA40 is UL94 capable or not.

Yes, the DA40-180 is UL94 capable.


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 Post subject: Re: What is the fastest/fuel-efficient airplane, supports UL
PostPosted: 08 Jan 2022, 16:12 
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Joined: 03/03/14
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Location: KPAO
Aircraft: MU-2, R44
Some great suggestions.

Love Beech and a UL-capable Deb would have great control feel.

Panthera is certainly possible, would alter the makeup of the partnership to skew more tech founders.

If experimental, the obvious answer is an RV8. Is there anything in the certified world that approaches the fuel flow and speed of the RV8?

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 Post subject: Re: What is the fastest/fuel-efficient airplane, supports UL
PostPosted: 08 Jan 2022, 17:09 
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Joined: 04/20/15
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Location: KFAT
Isn't a SR22T ready for UL94?


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 Post subject: Re: What is the fastest/fuel-efficient airplane, supports UL
PostPosted: 08 Jan 2022, 17:13 
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Joined: 12/03/17
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Location: Asheville, NC
Aircraft: Lancair LNC2
With my Lancair, I wouldn't worry about the engine. What I WOULD worry about was the PRC fuel tank sealer.


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 Post subject: Re: What is the fastest/fuel-efficient airplane, supports UL
PostPosted: 08 Jan 2022, 17:27 
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Joined: 03/03/14
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Aircraft: MU-2, R44
Username Protected wrote:
What I WOULD worry about was the PRC fuel tank sealer.


I thought that UL94 was ethanol-free. Wouldn't it be the same for the tank sealer as 100LL? I may be missing something.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the fastest/fuel-efficient airplane, supports UL
PostPosted: 08 Jan 2022, 18:27 
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Joined: 02/15/21
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I second the aerodiesel suggestion.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the fastest/fuel-efficient airplane, supports UL
PostPosted: 08 Jan 2022, 19:12 
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Joined: 10/05/11
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Company: Power/mation
Location: Milwaukee, WI (KMKE)
Aircraft: 1963 Debonair B33
Username Protected wrote:
I thought that UL94 was ethanol-free. Wouldn't it be the same for the tank sealer as 100LL? I may be missing something.


Highest octane readily available pump gas from the corner station is not always ethanol free. It depends on the location.

For example, here in Milwaukee it contains Ethanol. An hour away in other counties, it does not.

UL94 or 91 from an airport should be Ethanol free. Guys who buy from auto gas stations recommend always checking for Ethanol.

If I did not have easy on-airport access to MoGas (short hop from MKE to 02C), I would not be as enamored with my IO-470-K.

The effort to transport your own gas is a bit of a PITA depending upon how much you fly.

I've always thought this was super smart, but I am not sure if I would want to do this all the time.

https://www.csobeech.com/FuelTransferSystem.html

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 Post subject: Re: What is the fastest/fuel-efficient airplane, supports UL
PostPosted: 08 Jan 2022, 19:49 
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Joined: 12/07/17
Posts: 6427
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Company: Malco Power Design
Location: KLVJ
Aircraft: 1976 Baron 58
You just described an early model Mooney.


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 Post subject: Re: What is the fastest/fuel-efficient airplane, supports UL
PostPosted: 08 Jan 2022, 21:31 
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Joined: 03/12/18
Posts: 489
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Location: KSNA John Wayne, CA
Aircraft: Mooney M20S Eagle
As joel stated, an older mooney. An M20C is on the list of approved aircraft for ul94. Basic johnson bar gear, bulletproof O360 engine, and great economy. Pretty sure most people fly them at 8 to 10 gph doing 140 to 150 knots. Not as fast as an RV8, but decently cheaper to aquire. I think the vintage mooneys come down to some of the cheapest certified 4 seat planes to fly from a dollar per mile comparison.


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 Post subject: Re: What is the fastest/fuel-efficient airplane, supports UL
PostPosted: 08 Jan 2022, 22:11 
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Joined: 03/07/16
Posts: 519
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Location: KBJI
Aircraft: Whatever I can rent
RV-8


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 Post subject: Re: What is the fastest/fuel-efficient airplane, supports UL
PostPosted: 09 Jan 2022, 00:33 
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Joined: 10/18/11
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Aircraft: Seabee Aerostar 700
the piper Dakota I think has the 260 hp lycoming


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