banner
banner

07 Aug 2022, 21:39 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Aviation Fabricators (Top Banner)



Reply to topic  [ 140 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: Re: Cirrus G6 2022
PostPosted: 20 Jan 2022, 22:47 
Online


 Profile




Joined: 01/06/08
Posts: 3540
Post Likes: +2132
Aircraft: B55 P2
The chute has real value. Engines fail and there are situations where suitability without a chute isn't great.

Its not easy to show that a second engine does any better, despite the much higher cost



Username Protected wrote:
Don't underestimate the appeal of the parachute in the marketing equation.

Seriously, maybe not for the pilot flying solo, but for that "what if" case of pilot incapacitation to be used by one of the passengers.

Concern for family members' safety, or even the opinion of family members themselves, may have a significant affect on buying decisions.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cirrus G6 2022
PostPosted: 20 Jan 2022, 23:18 
Online


 Profile




Joined: 11/18/15
Posts: 38
Post Likes: +38
Aircraft: Cirrus SR22 G3
I have a G3 NA SR22 with the Garmin Perspective electronics. I have to say that it is a lot of plane for the money. It’s relatively fast, economical, decent useful load, and hard to load it out of cg. It’s comfortable even for the folks in the back and has real air conditioning like your automobile. I don’t have to turn it off to takeoff.

My wife likes the chute and it is growing on me as well. Im busy and work a lot of hours so sometimes I fly after dark. The chute gives me a little more confidence if I had an engine out at night.

The paint job is fancy and I can clean the plane like I do a boat….. I can use a hose. No crawling under the plane with a rag, I use a soft bristle brush on a long handle like they use at a high end car dealership.

The doors are clunky. You have to slam them. I think that they made them easier to deal with in the G5 but I close the passenger door from the outside to avoid issues with passengers. Not a big deal.

I never saw myself in a Cirrus but it fits my mission well at the moment and is a lot of bang for the buck well, at least it was two years ago when I bought it. I see why they sell a lot of them.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cirrus G6 2022
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2022, 11:15 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 09/27/13
Posts: 42
Post Likes: +24
Location: Fairview, TX
Aircraft: Citation 501
Username Protected wrote:
I have a G3 NA SR22 with the Garmin Perspective electronics. I have to say that it is a lot of plane for the money.


The G3 is 12-15 years old, right?


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cirrus G6 2022
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2022, 11:18 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/19/11
Posts: 3282
Post Likes: +1397
Company: Bottom Line Experts
Location: KTOL - Toledo, OH
Aircraft: 2013 SR22T G5
Username Protected wrote:
I have a G3 NA SR22 with the Garmin Perspective electronics. I have to say that it is a lot of plane for the money.


The G3 is 12-15 years old, right?


G3's were made from late 2008 - 2012, so they are ~10-14 yrs old.
_________________
Don Coburn
Corporate Expense Reduction Specialist
2013 SR22T G5


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cirrus G6 2022
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2022, 12:10 
Online


 Profile




Joined: 11/18/15
Posts: 38
Post Likes: +38
Aircraft: Cirrus SR22 G3
Our plane is a 2008 and it was the first year for the G1000. The G3 was introduced in 2007. The G5 is the next upgrade and it has the 200lb useful load increase. My useful is right at 1100lbs.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cirrus G6 2022
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2022, 14:32 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 09/27/13
Posts: 42
Post Likes: +24
Location: Fairview, TX
Aircraft: Citation 501
Username Protected wrote:
Our plane is a 2008 and it was the first year for the G1000. The G3 was introduced in 2007. The G5 is the next upgrade and it has the 200lb useful load increase. My useful is right at 1100lbs.


In case any of your original reply was directed at mine; my comments were aimed at brand new aircraft. I would imagine that the new Cirrus is somewhere around 3-5x more expensive than what you paid for your G3.

My comments weren't intended to dismiss those who enjoy their Cirrus airplanes. It's simply hard for me to understand justifying a brand new one for >$1m when you consider how much more airplane you can get for far less.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cirrus G6 2022
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2022, 14:57 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/19/11
Posts: 3282
Post Likes: +1397
Company: Bottom Line Experts
Location: KTOL - Toledo, OH
Aircraft: 2013 SR22T G5
Username Protected wrote:
Our plane is a 2008 and it was the first year for the G1000. The G3 was introduced in 2007. The G5 is the next upgrade and it has the 200lb useful load increase. My useful is right at 1100lbs.


I stand corrected. The G3 was introduced in '07.

I've flown all models of SRXX and from my perspective the jump from G2 to G3 is easily the most significant upgrade to the SR fleet. Some 700+ design changes were made from G2 to G3.

_________________
Don Coburn
Corporate Expense Reduction Specialist
2013 SR22T G5


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cirrus G6 2022
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2022, 15:16 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 11/21/09
Posts: 10507
Post Likes: +11002
Location: Abilene, TX (KABI)
Aircraft: Prior SR22T,V35B,182
Quote:
Wives like the chute and that wins sales.

I've heard this literally hundreds of times. Maybe the wives played a larger role in the average choice of planes than I imagine. My wife never made the decision. She didn't even contribute to the discussion. What she did do was help pick paint colors and interior designs, but actual plane? No.

Pilots like chutes.

I've known and talked to a LOT of Cirrus pilots, and not one said, "Awe shucks, ya know, the little lady wanted a chute." Nope. They'll quote stats all day long why they like the chute. And they're impressive stats. And they'll talk about the ergonomics, etc.

I'm sure somebody is putting it off to their pilot buddies of other planes (wife comment), but it's exceedingly rare.

For me, I'll leave Houston after dark for a 2 hour flight home in a Cirrus. I *might* uncomfortably fly any other SEP home, but will more than likely stay the night and come back in the morning.

That doesn't even begin to describe the tech and pleasant characteristics of flying the Cirrus.

I don't have one now, but I am still a big Cirrus fan.

For perspective, I've had 3 182's (D, S & T), a V35B, and 2 G3 Cirrus (an N/A, and a TN - both Perspective avionics).


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cirrus G6 2022
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2022, 16:58 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 08/16/13
Posts: 440
Post Likes: +656
Company: Contract King Airs Citations
Location: Pensacola FL
Aircraft: 1972 V35B
Flown a G-2 and G-3 a bunch. What stands out to me is the lackluster useful load. Top it off and you have a two person aircraft. Not worth all the other glitz. Evidently not an issue with the customer base.

_________________
v/r
--John
"The World is Small When You Fly a Beechcraft" --W.H.B.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cirrus G6 2022
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2022, 17:07 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/19/11
Posts: 3282
Post Likes: +1397
Company: Bottom Line Experts
Location: KTOL - Toledo, OH
Aircraft: 2013 SR22T G5
Username Protected wrote:
Flown a G-2 and G-3 a bunch. What stands out to me is the lackluster useful load. Top it off and you have a two person aircraft. Not worth all the other glitz. Evidently not an issue with the customer base.


Most SR22's you'll find on the market are equipped with all the goodies. At 'typical' G3 Turbo has ~900# of UL. A 'typical' G5 SR22T has ~1,100# of UL. Those 'typical' birds include nearly every avionics option available plus:

- A/C
- Turbo
- CAPS
- FIKI TKS

The (4) options above could easily add 200#+ to any aircraft that doesn't already have those options, so to produce an 1,100# UL (G5/G6) with all those goodies installed is quite an accomplishment.

The typical G3 is a bit UL limited, for sure. A G5 is not.

_________________
Don Coburn
Corporate Expense Reduction Specialist
2013 SR22T G5


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cirrus G6 2022
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2022, 18:21 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/30/09
Posts: 2952
Post Likes: +1657
Location: $ilicon Vall€y
Aircraft: Columbia 400
Username Protected wrote:

For me, I'll leave Houston after dark for a 2 hour flight home in a Cirrus. I *might* uncomfortably fly any other SEP home, but will more than likely stay the night and come back in the morning.



I'm not picking on you in particular.

That's an example of expanding the risk envelope, rather than expanding the safety envelope.

Just something to think about.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cirrus G6 2022
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2022, 18:36 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 11/21/09
Posts: 10507
Post Likes: +11002
Location: Abilene, TX (KABI)
Aircraft: Prior SR22T,V35B,182
Username Protected wrote:

I'm not picking on you in particular.

That's an example of expanding the risk envelope, rather than expanding the safety envelope.

Just something to think about.

Conversations I haven't had in some time....

The chute expands the safety envelope. Much like a second engine.

These conversations rarely change an opinion/bias, which is why I've stayed out of them for a couple years. Well... they also don't come up like they use to.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cirrus G6 2022
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2022, 19:44 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/19/11
Posts: 3282
Post Likes: +1397
Company: Bottom Line Experts
Location: KTOL - Toledo, OH
Aircraft: 2013 SR22T G5
Username Protected wrote:
That's an example of expanding the risk envelope, rather than expanding the safety envelope.


When I flew SE bird around the Great Lakes, I always flew around the lake shore but when I got a twin, I began flying directly across. It offered more utility on these types of flights compared to the singles I was flying previously.

When I flew non FIKI equipped birds, I never dispatched into known ice. When I flew the Seneca II and later the FIKI Cirrus, I began flying into known icing conditions, albeit carefully and always with an out. Both offered higher degrees of utility than the non FIKI birds.

When I flew a pressurized C340, I would operate at higher altitudes than I would a non-pressurized bird. It offered higher utility in altitude selection than the non-pressurized birds I flew before that.

In all cases, you could make a case that operating differently with different capabilities introduced risk if you chose to make that case. From my perspective all those capabilities came with higher utility.

Say what you want but for my use, the CAPS, for some flight conditions (such as night flights), can offer a higher degree of utility vs a non chute equipped airplane.

_________________
Don Coburn
Corporate Expense Reduction Specialist
2013 SR22T G5


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cirrus G6 2022
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2022, 19:58 
Online


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 08/14/13
Posts: 5131
Post Likes: +3643
Aircraft: C90B Nxi
Username Protected wrote:
Say what you want but for my use, the CAPS, for some flight conditions (such as night flights), can offer a higher degree of utility vs a non chute equipped airplane.


If the goal is to survive, sure. When I dispatch I aim to return to earth without involving an insurance company

To do otherwise (ie, CAPS is your “out”) is flawed thinking

CAPS is fantastic and has saved many lives, no dispute there

However, flight planning with CAPS factored in is irresponsible on many levels, treat it like it does not have a parachute, if you want to depart at night, over water, or over terrain regularly, pay for the second engine


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cirrus G6 2022
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2022, 20:04 
Online


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 02/13/10
Posts: 19440
Post Likes: +21516
Location: Castle Rock, Colorado
Aircraft: Prior C310,BE33,SR22
Username Protected wrote:
However, flight planning with CAPS factored in is irresponsible on many levels, treat it like it does not have a parachute, if you want to depart at night, over water, or over terrain regularly, pay for the second engine

Is flying at night in a non-parachute single-engine plane over terrain or IMC conditions "irresponsible?"

_________________
Arlen
Get your motor runnin'
Head out on the highway
- Mars Bonfire


Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 140 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next




You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2022

.jetshades-85x150.png.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.
.stanmusikame-85x50.jpg.
.gallagher_85x50.jpg.
.STLAir_85x50.jpg.
.aircraftassociates-85x50.png.
.Foreflight_85x50_color.png.
.shortnnumbers-85x100.png.
.traceaviation-85x150.png.
.tat-85x100.png.
.ssv-85x50.jpg.
.bpt-85x50-2019-07-27.jpg.
.echelon-85x50.png.
.concorde.jpg.
.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.wilco-85x100.png.
.Rocky-Mountain-Turbine-85x100.jpg.
.ei-85x150.jpg.
.saint-85x50.jpg.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.KalAir_Black.jpg.
.ps_engineering.gif.
.Genesys_85x50.jpg.
.kadex-85x50.jpg.
.Marsh.jpg.
.avionicssource-85x50.jpg.
.blr-85x200.jpg.
.avionwealth-85x50.png.
.kingairacademy-85x100.png.
.cav-85x50.jpg.
.centex-85x50.jpg.
.avfab-85x50-2018-12-04.png.
.EagleFuelCellsTriple.jpg.
.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.AAI.jpg.
.jandsaviation-85x50.jpg.
.garmin-85x200-2021-11-22.jpg.
.SCA.jpg.
.airpower-85x50.jpg.
.CiESVer2.jpg.
.xnaut-85x50.jpg.
.forge-85x50.jpg.
.blackwell-85x50.png.
.dshannon.jpg.
.bkool-85x50-2014-08-04.jpg.
.airmart-85x150.png.
.instar.jpg.
.dbm.jpg.
.wat-85x50.jpg.
.jetacq-85x50.jpg.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.sierratrax-85x50.png.
.komn-85x50.png.
.blackhawk-85x100-2019-09-25.jpg.
.tempest.jpg.
.aopa-85x150-2022-06-16.png.
.Wentworth_85x100.JPG.
.chairmanaviation-85x50.jpg.
.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.nexus-85x50.jpg.
.camguard.jpg.
.Davis_Aviation_85x50.jpg.
.Latitude.jpg.
.greenwich-85x50-2020-08-10.jpg.