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25 May 2022, 12:11 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: What is the fastest/fuel-efficient airplane, supports UL
PostPosted: 09 Jan 2022, 03:44 
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Company: Docking Drawer
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KSMO has ridiculous fees for turbines

Sorry quick thread drift and I don’t mean to derail your search for another airplane. If you want one, go for it. But regarding SMO I fly my conquest there sometimes and I park in the south side transient spots immediately east of the terminal right in front of that police temporary building. There’s a landing fee and a nominal overnight but it’s nothing like across the field at Atlantic. You should be able to do a round trip from PAO without needing to buy fuel.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the fastest/fuel-efficient airplane, supports UL
PostPosted: 09 Jan 2022, 07:58 
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Joined: 11/08/12
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Username Protected wrote:
Isn't a SR22T ready for UL94?


Yes that was allegedly the reason for moving to T over the TAT TN. 7.5:1 compression ratio


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 Post subject: Re: What is the fastest/fuel-efficient airplane, supports UL
PostPosted: 09 Jan 2022, 11:11 
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Joined: 10/22/08
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Location: Sherman, Tx
Aircraft: 35-C33, A36
I can't comment on UL94 approvals... I've never looked. .

For unleaded mogas:
IMHO.... the io-470K debonairs (or e-series bonanza) will be the fastest most fuel efficient CERTIFIED aircraft available.

A clean debonair with a 2 blade prop will deliver ALMOST a 160 knot cruise @ 75% power at mid weights and optimal altitudes. It will do that on 13.5 gallons of mogas that we can buy today in Texas for $2.80 a gallon. (about $38 an hour for fuel)
IF you want to slow down to Mooney speeds and fuel burns.... it will do 150 knots on around 12 gallons an hour... a nice power setting... or around 140 knots give or take 10 gallons and hour.
It can also have a useful load in the 1050 to 1075 pound range.

IF you go experimentals.... some of the RV's will be hard to beat.

$0.02 worth.

Leldon Locke


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 Post subject: Re: What is the fastest/fuel-efficient airplane, supports UL
PostPosted: 09 Jan 2022, 13:52 
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Joined: 04/20/15
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Location: KFAT
Username Protected wrote:
Quote:
KSMO has ridiculous fees for turbines

Sorry quick thread drift and I don’t mean to derail your search for another airplane. If you want one, go for it. But regarding SMO I fly my conquest there sometimes and I park in the south side transient spots immediately east of the terminal right in front of that police temporary building. There’s a landing fee and a nominal overnight but it’s nothing like across the field at Atlantic. You should be able to do a round trip from PAO without needing to buy fuel.


I've done this in an Epic, too. Can be tight quarters but I'd rather be doing it in an MU2 than any other turboprop

The AFD calls for no turbines on the south, but I called ahead to ask for a blessing anyways and got the green light.


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 Post subject: Re: What is the fastest/fuel-efficient airplane, supports UL
PostPosted: 09 Jan 2022, 17:31 
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Joined: 01/30/09
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Location: $ilicon Vall€y
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Username Protected wrote:
Isn't a SR22T ready for UL94?


Yes that was allegedly the reason for moving to T over the TAT TN. 7.5:1 compression ratio



All of the TSIO550 models are 7.5:1 compression, but only the -K engine is approved for UL94 fuel.

I cannot fathom a reason why the -C isn't, as it is rated 5hp lower.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the fastest/fuel-efficient airplane, supports UL
PostPosted: 09 Jan 2022, 18:11 
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Joined: 10/05/11
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Username Protected wrote:
All of the TSIO550 models are 7.5:1 compression, but only the -K engine is approved for UL94 fuel.

I cannot fathom a reason why the -C isn't, as it is rated 5hp lower.


IIRC, in the Bonanza/Deb Fleet:
The IO-470-K is 225hp
The O-470-C is 250hp (carbureted)
The IO-470-N is 260hp

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 Post subject: Re: What is the fastest/fuel-efficient airplane, supports UL
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2022, 00:20 
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Check out the Risen aircraft from Italy. 200 knots true at 10,000ft burning 6.8 GPH with a Rotax 914 turbo. The 915 iS powered Risen is even faster.

There are two currently flying in the US. My dream airplane would be the Blackwing 915.


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 Post subject: Re: What is the fastest/fuel-efficient airplane, supports UL
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2022, 01:30 
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Username Protected wrote:
I cannot fathom a reason why the -C isn't, as it is rated 5hp lower.

Octane requirement is based on the conditions in the cylinder, not the total horsepower output of the engine. A 470 cubic inch engine is working much harder (requiring more octane) than a 550 cubic inch engine generating the same power.

Paul


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 Post subject: Re: What is the fastest/fuel-efficient airplane, supports UL
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2022, 08:24 
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Username Protected wrote:
Check out the Risen aircraft from Italy. 200 knots true at 10,000ft burning 6.8 GPH with a Rotax 914 turbo. The 915 iS powered Risen is even faster.

There are two currently flying in the US. My dream airplane would be the Blackwing 915.


I forgot about those! Excellent suggestions.

The last issue of AOPA pilot touched on these non-speed limited and RG European Light Sport Aircraft.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the fastest/fuel-efficient airplane, supports UL
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2022, 12:44 
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Or consider the VL3

https://www.alionaviation.com/vl3-aircraft/


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 Post subject: Re: What is the fastest/fuel-efficient airplane, supports UL
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2022, 13:11 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKk0FRZPw6I


10 Fastest Kit plane....

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 Post subject: Re: What is the fastest/fuel-efficient airplane, supports UL
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2022, 15:27 
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Joined: 03/03/14
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Location: KPAO
Aircraft: MU-2, R44
Username Protected wrote:
Quote:
KSMO has ridiculous fees for turbines

Sorry quick thread drift and I don’t mean to derail your search for another airplane. If you want one, go for it. But regarding SMO I fly my conquest there sometimes and I park in the south side transient spots immediately east of the terminal right in front of that police temporary building. There’s a landing fee and a nominal overnight but it’s nothing like across the field at Atlantic. You should be able to do a round trip from PAO without needing to buy fuel.


Very helpful - thank you for sharing that. Interestingly, I taxied over to the transient parking I used to use in the Berkut last time and Airport Ops came up on Ground and asked ATC to tell me not to park there because I (in my MU-2) would "blow their windows out". They then clearly said, "No turbines allowed on the South ramp" and told me I had to go to Atlantic. Maybe you park further away, I will PM to clarify.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the fastest/fuel-efficient airplane, supports UL
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2022, 15:38 
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Joined: 03/03/14
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Username Protected wrote:
Check out the Risen aircraft from Italy. 200 knots true at 10,000ft burning 6.8 GPH with a Rotax 914 turbo. The 915 iS powered Risen is even faster.

There are two currently flying in the US. My dream airplane would be the Blackwing 915.


Interesting, thanks! I hadn't heard of either. Are either certified or planned to be certified in the US?

Edit: ah I see from another post that they may be LSA. I should have said in the first post - IFR is a requirement to have reasonable dispatch reliability. Both ends, KPAO and KSMO, are often fogged.

These new designs are really cool and would appeal to the tech-focused other members of the partnership. The concern would be support and resale value. That may be the tradeoff between one of these and a Deb.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the fastest/fuel-efficient airplane, supports UL
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2022, 15:55 
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Joined: 08/05/16
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Username Protected wrote:
Mission: I recently traded our Berkut for an MU-2, which is our family dream airplane. I do miss the fun of maneuvering flying. And the Mu doesn't make much sense to fly by myself for short trips. For example, about twelve times a year I fly by myself from KPAO-KSMO for a meeting, and KSMO has ridiculous fees for turbines. I'd love there to be less friction to go to fly-ins or go fly see local friends for lunch. I don't expect to reach the Berkut's 215kts at 8.5 gph, but want to optimize for both as much as practical.


I am learning it's actually the hedge fund that owns Atlantic (in this case, as in Aspen) that has ridiculous fees, not KSMO, the fund is just effectively taxing use of the public asset.

There is a city terminal that charges $40 I believe. They do say no jets or "large turboprops," but they don't define what that is. I need to head there in a couple weeks and I'm tempted to just park on the city ramp. Clearly a PC-12 or KA350 is large, I'm happy to argue about a 441. Only problem is if there isn't any room I'm stuck paying $500 to walk through their lobby. It's a bad situation.

Edit: Just saw Scott's post. Good to know!


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 Post subject: Re: What is the fastest/fuel-efficient airplane, supports UL
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2022, 16:05 
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Username Protected wrote:
Quote:
KSMO has ridiculous fees for turbines

Sorry quick thread drift and I don’t mean to derail your search for another airplane. If you want one, go for it. But regarding SMO I fly my conquest there sometimes and I park in the south side transient spots immediately east of the terminal right in front of that police temporary building. There’s a landing fee and a nominal overnight but it’s nothing like across the field at Atlantic. You should be able to do a round trip from PAO without needing to buy fuel.


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