24 Apr 2024, 04:49 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope Posted: 20 Jul 2022, 00:00 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23622 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
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Username Protected wrote: It is my belief that with that much brain power, and budget, if applied on earth, they could do more amazing accomplishments. We don't yet fully understand matter. energy, and time. Unlocking those secrets may yield huge benefits here on Earth like clean energy and other transformative technologies. To study the physics in question here on Earth either takes enormous projects like the Hadron Collider, or the experiment in question simply can't be done, like studying black holes. But we have a whole universe of experiments running all the time in the sky above us. The universe is doing experiments at a scale and intensity we can't even imagine. Studying how things works in outer space teaches us the fundamentals of science here on Earth. So even if you only desired outcome from all of this is what we can do here on Earth, then the JWST is useful. The JWST is potentially the user interface to the fundamental laws of physics. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope Posted: 20 Jul 2022, 09:23 |
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Joined: 05/06/14 Posts: 6560 Post Likes: +7403 Company: The French Tradition Location: KCRQ - Carlsbad - KTOA
Aircraft: 89 A36 TN, 78 Tiger
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Username Protected wrote: The JWST is potentially the user interface to the fundamental laws of physics.
Mike C.
I am maybe poking the bear, but what fundamental laws of physics were discovered in deep space, that are applicable on earth? The observation of deep space still remains only an observation. I am actually a big fan of Nasa... My son has worked there... And I am blown away by what they have accomplished with the James Web Telescope. I just don't see the point. Lots of theoretical assumptions, which are not verifiable, from distances that are so incredibly inaccessible...
_________________ Bonanza 89 A36 Turbo Norm Grumman Tiger 78
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Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope Posted: 20 Jul 2022, 09:25 |
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Joined: 06/25/10 Posts: 13142 Post Likes: +19201 Company: Keybilly Adventures Location: FD51
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Username Protected wrote: Lots of theoretical assumptions, which are not verifiable, from distances that are so incredibly inaccessible... Not nearly as theoretical and inaccessible as believing you're going to solve poverty, hunger, war, sickness, etc. simply by throwing NASA's minuscule budget at the problem.
_________________ “Fear is the Mind-Killer”
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Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope Posted: 20 Jul 2022, 11:12 |
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Joined: 01/06/08 Posts: 4702 Post Likes: +2705
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A lot of the big problems on earth are not really science problems, they usually have a big political / social component. Still there is a lot of cross over. Until two months ago I was working on telescopes for cosmology. Now I'm at Google working on new energy sources. A lot of people move up and back between the different areas. Username Protected wrote: It is truly astonishing what they have accomplished with this telescope. The technology that had to be created is incredible. So many innovations. But for me, I don't see the need for deep space photos... Though they are pretty... It is my belief that with that much brain power, and budget, if applied on earth, they could do more amazing accomplishments.
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Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope Posted: 20 Jul 2022, 12:32 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23622 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
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Username Protected wrote: I am maybe poking the bear, but what fundamental laws of physics were discovered in deep space, that are applicable on earth? An old example: Gravity. The basic inverse square law nature of gravity wasn't discovered by looking at the Earth but by measuring celestial mechanics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27 ... ravitationThe gravity theory wasn't directly measured on Earth until almost 100 years after Newton died (the Cavendish experiment). Those insights now allow us to have satellites which provide enormous benefits on Earth. Similar insights are being explored in high energy physics and other fields observing and measuring what goes on in the universe. We still don't really know how gravity works, and there are lots of people looking into that. If you can explain what is happening in the universe, then you can use that knowledge here on Earth. Mike C.
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Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope Posted: 20 Jul 2022, 16:10 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23622 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
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Username Protected wrote: Underlying all of this is the question of why the work must be justified. Every government expenditure should be justified. IMO, the JWST is FAR more justified than the SLS ($25B so far and counting....). Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope Posted: 20 Jul 2022, 20:11 |
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Joined: 01/06/08 Posts: 4702 Post Likes: +2705
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That is fair, but the question is what measure is used for the justification. Username Protected wrote: Underlying all of this is the question of why the work must be justified. Every government expenditure should be justified. IMO, the JWST is FAR more justified than the SLS ($25B so far and counting....). Mike C.
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Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope Posted: 20 Jul 2022, 21:47 |
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Joined: 04/26/13 Posts: 19949 Post Likes: +19698 Location: Columbus , IN (KBAK)
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Username Protected wrote: That is fair, but the question is what measure is used for the justification. That would be up to Congress to decide. They are supposed to be our representatives. They make the budget and are responsible for overseeing the way it is spent. If we disagree with their choices then it’s up to us to replace them with better representatives.
_________________ My last name rhymes with 'geese'.
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Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope Posted: 21 Jul 2022, 05:57 |
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Joined: 09/05/09 Posts: 4109 Post Likes: +2751 Location: Small Town, NC
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you do not have to look very hard to see the value that space exploration (microgravity experiments) has contributed to the tech development of society. tons of examples in micro-electronics, LEDs (including organic LEDs), portable power units, pumps (insulin pumps), scratch-resistant lenses, materials (insulators and foams), medical devices, etc.
we don't know what we don't know, until we search. scientists are great at "observe and report." and that's how we advance.
_________________ "Find worthy causes in your life."
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Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope Posted: 21 Jul 2022, 11:56 |
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Joined: 01/06/08 Posts: 4702 Post Likes: +2705
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The problem is that congress looks at very big slices of money, and can't put attention into the billion dollar details. From the national lab perspective, moving project decisions higher up has been a big problem because congress is very slow to react to changing situations and some projects are funded long after they should have been abandoned, while others are tremendously delayed. I'd rather seem the money given to organizations (NASA, DOE, etc) and have project decisions made at a much lower level. Even JWST: the pictures are fantastic - but was that the best use of that much money for astrophysics research? How would you weigh it against say CMB-S4? https://cmb-s4.org/ or PUMA. Should SLS be abandoned because its far over budget and behind schedule? JWST was the same just a couple of years ago. These are all tricky *technical* questions Username Protected wrote: That is fair, but the question is what measure is used for the justification. That would be up to Congress to decide. They are supposed to be our representatives. They make the budget and are responsible for overseeing the way it is spent. If we disagree with their choices then it’s up to us to replace them with better representatives.
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Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope Posted: 02 Aug 2022, 14:10 |
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Joined: 02/08/08 Posts: 5537 Post Likes: +3551 Location: Seattle
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One of the newer images of the Cartwheel Galaxy here. That image is stunning, but what continues to astonish me is that the background of each new photo is filled with galaxies. Everywhere Webb looks, no matter how small the slice of the sky, it shows us uncountable galaxies, each home to billions of stars.
_________________ -Bruce bruceair.wordpress.com youtube.com/@BruceAirFlying
Last edited on 02 Aug 2022, 18:52, edited 1 time in total.
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Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope Posted: 02 Aug 2022, 16:25 |
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Joined: 09/11/09 Posts: 5301 Post Likes: +4213 Company: Looking Location: Tulsa, Ok
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Username Protected wrote: One of the newer images of the Cartwheel Galaxy here. That image is stunning, but what continues to astonish me is that, the background of each new photo is filled with galaxies. Everywhere Webb looks, no matter how small the slice of the sky, it shows us uncountable galaxies, each home to billions of stars. And potentially way better life forms than Earth has spawned. *Hope.
_________________ I don't have a problem with anger, I have a problem with idiots.
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