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 Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope
PostPosted: 03 Aug 2022, 13:39 
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That image is stunning, but what continues to astonish me is that the background of each new photo is filled with galaxies. Everywhere Webb looks, no matter how small the slice of the sky, it shows us uncountable galaxies, each home to billions of stars.

And they are only looking in places they already know have interesting things. What are they going to discover when they look in supposedly "boring" places?

For me, the number one conclusion from the JWST is that the universe is beautiful. I'm sure the science is and will be fantastic, but for the moment, producing beautiful images is a worthwhile outcome as well.

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 Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope
PostPosted: 03 Aug 2022, 21:56 
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I'm pretty sure that they somtimes pointed Hubble in random directions for just that reason - to see what an average bit of the universe looks like (its all full of galaxies). I expect they will do the same with jwst

Username Protected wrote:
That image is stunning, but what continues to astonish me is that the background of each new photo is filled with galaxies. Everywhere Webb looks, no matter how small the slice of the sky, it shows us uncountable galaxies, each home to billions of stars.

And they are only looking in places they already know have interesting things. What are they going to discover when they look in supposedly "boring" places?

For me, the number one conclusion from the JWST is that the universe is beautiful. I'm sure the science is and will be fantastic, but for the moment, producing beautiful images is a worthwhile outcome as well.

Mike C.


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 Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope
PostPosted: 05 Aug 2022, 15:18 
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“Picture of Proxima Centauri, the nearest star to the Sun, located 4.2 light years away from us. It was taken by the James Webb Space Telescope. This level of detail… A new world is unveiled everyday"





Edit: this was actually posted on Twitter by a scientist! It is a picture of a slice of Chorizo


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 Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2022, 02:15 
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“Picture of Proxima Centauri, the nearest star to the Sun, located 4.2 light years away from us. It was taken by the James Webb Space Telescope. This level of detail… A new world is unveiled everyday"

The angular resolution of the JWST is clearly not sufficient to image a star in that detail, so this was easily identified as a false image.

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 Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2022, 02:34 
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 Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2022, 02:59 
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For years we have been reading and hearing of "dark matter" and "dark energy". I'd like to know if the JW telescope has shown any of that dark matter.


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 Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2022, 09:27 
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For years we have been reading and hearing of "dark matter" and "dark energy". I'd like to know if the JW telescope has shown any of that dark matter.

Well, the thing about dark matter - its main distinguishing feature - is it's dark. And the thing about space, the colour of space, your basic space colour, is dark. So how are you supposed to see it?

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 Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2022, 09:35 
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I'd like to know if the JW telescope has shown any of that dark matter.

No telescope can image dark matter because it is, uh, dark. It gets its name because the visible matter isn't enough to explain the gravitational effects on the matter that is visible, so it is created to make our theories of gravity fit the observation.

This makes dark matter controversial since we are adjusting our model of the universe to fit our theories instead of adjusting our theories to fit the universe. To a certain extent, dark matter is a place holder until we have a more refined understanding of the universe. This is something JWST will likely radically improve due to vastly improved observations of more distant objects.

Example work that may suggest dark matter doesn't exist:

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/space/m ... h-n1252995

The proposition is to modify the way gravity works and that would explain the observations without the need to create dark matter. This is still a minority view among astrophysicists, but it shows that dark matter might not be the only possible explanation.

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 Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2022, 09:36 
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Username Protected wrote:
For years we have been reading and hearing of "dark matter" and "dark energy". I'd like to know if the JW telescope has shown any of that dark matter.

Well, the thing about dark matter - its main distinguishing feature - is it's dark. And the thing about space, the colour of space, your basic space colour, is dark. So how are you supposed to see it?


You look for the gravitational lensing it’s existence produces. From what I’ve briefly read, it seems the JW scope has sufficient resolution to make that a realistic possibility.
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 Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2022, 10:51 
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Well, the thing about dark matter - its main distinguishing feature - is it's dark. And the thing about space, the colour of space, your basic space colour, is dark. So how are you supposed to see it?

I am certainly no expert, but just from hearing certain terms, it sounds like dark matter is not visible, to us, but we humans only see a very tiny slice of the spectrum. The JWT seems to have technology to allow it to see much more of the light spectrum than we can. Might that not have something to offer in the detection of dark matter?

But I do understand how the concept of dark matter is sort of a place holder to help explain our theory of the universe, until we can figure out WTF is really going on.


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 Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2022, 11:24 
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Username Protected wrote:
You look for the gravitational lensing it’s existence produces.

Gravitational lensing requires concentrated mass, like a black hole.

My understanding of dark matter is that it isn't concentrated but widespread.

If so, then it won't really be observable by gravitational lensing. Dark matter is inferred by the motions of large systems like galaxies and the universe in general.

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Last edited on 06 Aug 2022, 11:32, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2022, 11:31 
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Username Protected wrote:
You look for the gravitational lensing it’s existence produces.

Gravitational lensing requires concentrated mass, like a black hole.


Suns, planets, and yes, black holes - anything with mass that distorts spacetime and creates gravity will lens the light. The resolution and sensitivity of the instrument observing it dictates how much gravity is required to lens the light before we can detect it.

Quote:
My understanding of dark matter is that it isn't concentrated but widespread.


It could be widespread in a variety of ways, scattered like blobs of dark matter or a web of interconnected strands of dark matter, each warping spacetime to a different degree.

Quote:
If so, then it won't really be observable by gravitational lensing. Dark matter is inferred by the motions of large systems like galaxies and the universe in general.


It wasn't really observable before, but the resolution and sensitivity of the JW scope should allow us to quantify the lensing more accurately.

https://www.nasa.gov/content/discoverie ... ark-matter
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 Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2022, 11:39 
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It wasn't really observable before, but the resolution of the JW scope should allow us to quantify the lensing more accurately.

Hubble can clearly see gravitational lensing:

https://esahubble.org/wordbank/gravitational-lensing/

Nobody knows the distribution of dark matter, if it exists, but it can't be very concentrated to have the effects observed (concentrated dark matter would have orbiting bodies we can see). If it was concentrated, we'd be able to locate where it is, but that's not possible presently.

Another way to look at this is if we do find concentrate dark matter, we call it a black hole instead.

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 Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2022, 11:41 
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It wasn't really observable before, but the resolution of the JW scope should allow us to quantify the lensing more accurately.

Hubble can clearly see gravitational lensing:

https://esahubble.org/wordbank/gravitational-lensing/


My kid's telescope can see gravitational lensing with stars behind the sun. This isn't new. What's new is the resolution and the number of things behind the dark matter JW can see being lensed.

Quote:
Nobody knows the distribution of dark matter, if it exists,


Agreed. And mapping it with a background of countless galaxies we can actually see is now, MAYBE, possible.
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 Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2022, 11:53 
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“Dark Matter” is a fancy name for “we don’t understand it”. Humans detest mysteries and so quickly make up “answers” to the ones they encounter. Theologians call it “God”, climate scientists call it “adjusting the model”, astrophysicists have adopted “dark matter”.

I don’t like the idea because it tends to suggest an answer when we really have no idea, and so risks missing the truth in favor of a fabrication that validates our expectation. I’d rather just say “we don’t know” and let the science take us to the answer.

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