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19 May 2022, 18:06 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: YouTuber "Malibu Flyer" PA46 is for sale
PostPosted: 12 Jan 2022, 10:05 
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 Post subject: Re: YouTuber "Malibu Flyer" PA46 is for sale
PostPosted: 12 Jan 2022, 10:40 
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Terry, can you post that steering assembly picture? Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: YouTuber "Malibu Flyer" PA46 is for sale
PostPosted: 12 Jan 2022, 10:41 
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I saw a recent Youtube video showing the retraction on a PA46 and I was looking for the nosewheel to turn. Never saw it. Does the rotation happen toward the very top of the cycle?


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 Post subject: Re: YouTuber "Malibu Flyer" PA46 is for sale
PostPosted: 12 Jan 2022, 10:45 
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Username Protected wrote:
I saw a recent Youtube video showing the retraction on a PA46 and I was looking for the nosewheel to turn. Never saw it. Does the rotation happen toward the very top of the cycle?


Yes.

Watch here.[YouTube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_0M3sZuHYA[/YouTube]


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 Post subject: Re: YouTuber "Malibu Flyer" PA46 is for sale
PostPosted: 12 Jan 2022, 11:43 
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I read the report...
Ouch..
Is the insurance going to pay for that, since he admitted that he was the one that worked on the gear?

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 Post subject: Re: YouTuber "Malibu Flyer" PA46 is for sale
PostPosted: 12 Jan 2022, 14:11 
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Username Protected wrote:
I read the report...
Ouch..
Is the insurance going to pay for that, since he admitted that he was the one that worked on the gear?



I see were a couple of people have raised this question both here and on MMOPA. I looked at my own insurance policy, and I do not see any language which would exclude an accident occasioned by an owner repair, even if it exceeded what was allowed by the FAR’s. That, of course, is not to say that there are not policies out there which have such exclusionary language.


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 Post subject: Re: YouTuber "Malibu Flyer" PA46 is for sale
PostPosted: 12 Jan 2022, 14:29 
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Username Protected wrote:
I see were a couple of people have raised this question both here and on MMOPA. I looked at my own insurance policy, and I do not see any language which would exclude an accident occasioned by an owner repair, even if it exceeded what was allowed by the FAR’s. That, of course, is not to say that there are not policies out there which have such exclusionary language.


If he was not allowed to make the repair then he made the plane unairworthy. Not covered.

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 Post subject: Re: YouTuber "Malibu Flyer" PA46 is for sale
PostPosted: 12 Jan 2022, 14:40 
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Username Protected wrote:
Terry, can you post that steering assembly picture? Thanks.


Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.


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 Post subject: Re: YouTuber "Malibu Flyer" PA46 is for sale
PostPosted: 12 Jan 2022, 15:27 
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Username Protected wrote:
I see were a couple of people have raised this question both here and on MMOPA. I looked at my own insurance policy, and I do not see any language which would exclude an accident occasioned by an owner repair, even if it exceeded what was allowed by the FAR’s. That, of course, is not to say that there are not policies out there which have such exclusionary language.


If he was not allowed to make the repair then he made the plane unairworthy. Not covered.



Scott, at least under the terms and exclusions of my policy, I do not believe you would be correct. It only requires under the “limitations of use“ section of the insuring provisions that a standard airworthiness certificate have been issued by the FAA. There is nothing which negates coverage (nor is there any exclusion) due to the insured or someone else making an unauthorized repair in violation the FARs thereby presumably making the aircraft subsequently unairworthy.

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 Post subject: Re: YouTuber "Malibu Flyer" PA46 is for sale
PostPosted: 12 Jan 2022, 15:35 
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Username Protected wrote:
I see were a couple of people have raised this question both here and on MMOPA. I looked at my own insurance policy, and I do not see any language which would exclude an accident occasioned by an owner repair, even if it exceeded what was allowed by the FAR’s. That, of course, is not to say that there are not policies out there which have such exclusionary language.


If he was not allowed to make the repair then he made the plane unairworthy. Not covered.


I had lunch with my agent and an underwriter a few years back and I asked that question. He said if they didn't cover stuff like that, no one would insure an airplane through them.

Unfortunately, it's the part of the industry that sucks as when people do stupid stuff, the people that honestly try to comply with the FAR's have to pay for the idiots too...

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 Post subject: Re: YouTuber "Malibu Flyer" PA46 is for sale
PostPosted: 12 Jan 2022, 15:46 
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Terry, thanks again.

Scott, in our logical minds we think: “you screwed up, possibly violated FARs,that’s on you”. On the other hand every time this comes up in any form, e.g. no license, expired medical, improper compensation, presence of intoxicates, etc, no one has ever put forth a documented case of when insurance refused to pay. Typically any insurance pros on the board will support that to be true as well.

I think under the various state insurance rules, a loss is a loss to the insured and short of arson or intentional ditching the insurance may have no grounds to deny.

Just my thoughts, I am not one of the referenced insurance pros.

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 Post subject: Re: YouTuber "Malibu Flyer" PA46 is for sale
PostPosted: 12 Jan 2022, 19:33 
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Just my $0.02..

I have not read the insurance policy at issue and making the plane legally unairworthy would not matter much of a bit I suspect. Any insurance lawyer worth his salt would deny the claim because the thing that caused the loss was done - likely in an improper manner - by the owner/pilot.

Suppose you as a non-plumber, went into your attic and ran a gas line for a new stove and did not bother to solder or putty the joints to seal them as you should. Gas leaks and blows up the house. Does your homeowners pay? In many places no they do not because you caused the loss by your own gross lack of care.

Whole issue is whether the insurance company thinks it can prove this pilot did something he was not allowed to do that caused the loss. The law in the state in question (Arkansas?) will define just how stupid the insured can be and still be paid.

RAS


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 Post subject: Re: YouTuber "Malibu Flyer" PA46 is for sale
PostPosted: 12 Jan 2022, 20:32 
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Username Protected wrote:
Just my $0.02..

I have not read the insurance policy at issue and making the plane legally unairworthy would not matter much of a bit I suspect. Any insurance lawyer worth his salt would deny the claim because the thing that caused the loss was done - likely in an improper manner - by the owner/pilot.

Suppose you as a non-plumber, went into your attic and ran a gas line for a new stove and did not bother to solder or putty the joints to seal them as you should. Gas leaks and blows up the house. Does your homeowners pay? In many places no they do not because you caused the loss by your own gross lack of care.

Whole issue is whether the insurance company thinks it can prove this pilot did something he was not allowed to do that caused the loss. The law in the state in question (Arkansas?) will define just how stupid the insured can be and still be paid.

RAS


Virtually no policy in the world (I’d say none but that’s a very broad statement) has an exclusion for “gross lack of care.” The only exception close is an exclusion for injuries that are “expected and intended” (eg those idiots who have crashed or ditched for publicity, arson, etc.). The only policy I have a copy of on my desk to quickly reference is for my experimental so I won’t speculate further.

Edit after reading the report: It strikes me as very out of character (based on what I have seen in his videos) to assume that he was doing anything other (at least in his mind) than inspecting to ensure the airworthiness of his aircraft. That’s certainly not intended to be anything other than a subjective assessment of intent (as opposed to statutory or regulatory analysis of the applicable statutes/rules/regs), but he strikes me as a conscientious guy who also really loved that plane.


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 Post subject: Re: YouTuber "Malibu Flyer" PA46 is for sale
PostPosted: 13 Jan 2022, 04:23 
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Username Protected wrote:

Edit after reading the report: It strikes me as very out of character (based on what I have seen in his videos) to assume that he was doing anything other (at least in his mind) than inspecting to ensure the airworthiness of his aircraft. That’s certainly not intended to be anything other than a subjective assessment of intent (as opposed to statutory or regulatory analysis of the applicable statutes/rules/regs), but he strikes me as a conscientious guy who also really loved that plane.


He stated that he REMOVED & REINSTALLED the steering arm:

Attachment:
444DT.jpg


That said , he COULD have been Supervised by an A&P and in that case, no foul.

As I previously posted, I have a client that made a very similar log-book entry after working on his Arrow, the gear failed and the insurance denied pay-out, it went to court - my client lost.


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 Post subject: Re: YouTuber "Malibu Flyer" PA46 is for sale
PostPosted: 13 Jan 2022, 08:34 
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Username Protected wrote:

As I previously posted, I have a client that made a very similar log-book entry after working on his Arrow, the gear failed and the insurance denied pay-out, it went to court - my client lost.


That would be the only case I’ve ever heard of where airplane insurance failed to pay. I have seen some fairly egregious ones (no medical, student cert with pax on board, etc) where the insurance just sent a check despite there being technical grounds not to. Airplane insurance certainly at least has the reputation for leaning in the direction of the client when it comes to claims.


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