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29 Nov 2021, 00:54 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Late 60’s Shrike Commander vs late 70’s Navajo C
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2021, 15:02 
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Company: Southern Tire Mart
Location: Hattiesburg, MS
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Both! :pilot:

I used to want a CR Navajo, but with my daughter in a wheelchair now, I would love a Shrike.


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 Post subject: Re: Late 60’s Shrike Commander vs late 70’s Navajo C
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2021, 22:20 
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Username Protected wrote:
The Navajo is easier to maintain, it is easy to get parts for, fits in a smaller hangar since the tail isn't ridiculously tall like the Commander...

and... you don't have to worry about losing a wing due to spar cracks.

https://www.aviationconsumer.com/aircra ... 00-series/


Ridiculous comment. The Shrike wing is built like a brick outhouse.


While that is true, we haven't lost 24 Navajo wings in flight, or had to repair dozens more due to cracked spar caps.

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 Post subject: Re: Late 60’s Shrike Commander vs late 70’s Navajo C
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2021, 22:38 
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Location: KGNF, Grenada, MS
Aircraft: C-180, C-195, J-3
These are two of the markets I have been watching for several months now. Tried to buy one of each to no avail so far. The Commander market it absolutely bare. The 500S models for sale are not 500S models at all but older Commanders with a pilot door and extended nose and called Shrikes; they aren't. Unless one has come up recently, like in the last 24 hours, there are no late model Commanders for sale at all.

I tried to buy a low time Navajo several months ago. In fact there is a thread about it. Three or four times as many Navajos for sale. Same ones as on the market in May and June as far as I can tell. But there is a very good reason so few have low hours. They are very capable airplanes that can be maintained with reasonable effort and expenditures.

Knocking either is pretty short sighted IMO. Both are great airplanes. Both have ridiculous useful load capacities. You need to understand the spar issues of the Commander before making too many comments or you will be wrong.

I would love to own a Commander.

Jg

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 Post subject: Re: Late 60’s Shrike Commander vs late 70’s Navajo C
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2021, 22:51 
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Username Protected wrote:
T
Knocking either is pretty short sighted IMO. Both are great airplanes. Both have ridiculous useful load capacities. You need to understand the spar issues of the Commander before making too many comments or you will be wrong.

I would love to own a Commander.

Jg


Both are great airplanes. But one does not suffer from a primary design & manufacturing flaw which must be continuously inspected, and every so often will require many thousands of dollars to repair. These planes are much older now, since the main spar problems were identified. Which means they are always one inspection away from a $60K repair bill. You'd be amazed at how many sit outside in the salt air of South Florida and the Bahamas. They are prime candidates for more corrosion, and require even more care than before. I've seen at least five scrapped in the past few years for being beyond economical repair. The Navajos that get geared up, or beat up in commercial use, just get refurbished and keep flying.

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Last edited on 22 Oct 2021, 23:36, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Late 60’s Shrike Commander vs late 70’s Navajo C
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2021, 22:53 
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Username Protected wrote:

Knocking either is pretty short sighted IMO. Both are great airplanes. Both have ridiculous useful load capacities. You need to understand the spar issues of the Commander before making too many comments or you will be wrong.

I would love to own a Commander.

Jg

Bruce would know better than me, but my recollection is that the Commanders made in the early 1960’s are not affected by the spar a.d. that is applicable to the 500S.

I’d love to own a Commander as well. Hangar rents in my neck of the woods unfortunately get a bit over my budget for anything that would fit an Aero Commander.

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Last edited on 23 Oct 2021, 00:43, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Late 60’s Shrike Commander vs late 70’s Navajo C
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2021, 23:49 
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Location: Far West Texas
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Username Protected wrote:

Knocking either is pretty short sighted IMO. Both are great airplanes. Both have ridiculous useful load capacities. You need to understand the spar issues of the Commander before making too many comments or you will be wrong.

I would love to own a Commander.

Jg

Bruce would know better than me, but my recollection is that the Commanders made in the early 1960’s are not affected by the spar a.d. that is applicable to the 500S.

I’d love to own a Commander as well. Hangar rents in my neck of the woods get a bit over my budget for anything that would fit an Aero Commander.


Totally with Sven and JGG on this. The Commander has always struck me as the ultimate self-made mature gentleman's ride: A fiscally sound person, he doesn't need blinding speed or pressurized altitudes to get to his destination. If the weather doesn't cooperate, he chooses to stay one or more days at the resort; on his own schedule, and usually in enviable company.

Who more gentleman than Bob Hoover?

Best,

TN

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 Post subject: Re: Late 60’s Shrike Commander vs late 70’s Navajo C
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2021, 23:59 
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Username Protected wrote:
]The Navajo is easier to maintain, it is easy to get parts for, fits in a smaller hangar since the tail isn't ridiculously tall like the Commander...

and... you don't have to worry about losing a wing due to spar cracks.

https://www.aviationconsumer.com/aircra ... 00-series/

While that is true, we haven't lost 24 Navajo wings in flight, or had to repair dozens more due to cracked spar caps.


Oh boy. Here we go. A Wikipedia expert. You notice there’s not one Shrike in flight loss there? Of course you didn’t. You understand the vendetta that Australian had and the back story where he conflates all the old plane issues and does not differentiate gross over stress and, well never mind. I ain’t got time for this. Show what you don’t know. :bang:


Last edited on 23 Oct 2021, 00:09, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Late 60’s Shrike Commander vs late 70’s Navajo C
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2021, 00:01 
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Username Protected wrote:
The Navajo is easier to maintain, it is easy to get parts for, fits in a smaller hangar since the tail isn't ridiculously tall like the Commander...

and... you don't have to worry about losing a wing due to spar cracks.

https://www.aviationconsumer.com/aircra ... 00-series/


Ridiculous comment. The Shrike wing is built like a brick outhouse.


Same here.

IIRC, the 500B doesnt suffer the same problems as the other 500s no annual spar inspection. And if you want many have already been upgraded to "Shrike" status.

I'd prefer a regular 500B with the IO-470's. I've already been through singles and twins with io520 upgrades (or 550) and the extra headaches were not salved by the marginal increase in performance.

Right now, Im looking for a good 2-place plane for short trips and off-field camping. But if the Right 500B shows up; I'll drop a lot of other plans to make it happen. [Im even building a hangar big enough, just in case my fairy god mother is listening.]
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 Post subject: Re: Late 60’s Shrike Commander vs late 70’s Navajo C
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2021, 01:04 
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Back in the day


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 Post subject: Re: Late 60’s Shrike Commander vs late 70’s Navajo C
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2021, 01:30 
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More fun stuff from back in the day…


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 Post subject: Re: Late 60’s Shrike Commander vs late 70’s Navajo C
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2021, 01:37 
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More Commander nostalgia!


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 Post subject: Re: Late 60’s Shrike Commander vs late 70’s Navajo C
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2021, 07:17 
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Glenn,

Yours is NOT an unreasonable response. I studied the spar issue and there is a lot more to it than just numbers. A properly inspected Commander is a safe ride and a safe buy. The spar issue does not apply to every model in the same way or at all in some cases.

It is not appropriate to push the Commander "off the table" as a possible buy anymore than it is to say that Bonanza tails fall off. Or that because of ruddervader corrosion no one should buy a Bonanza.

You are also not being unreasonable to assume that parts are an issue, but, surprisingly, they are not. In fact, I haven't talked to one Commander owner that said it was an issue.

I'll have to pose this question? If Commander safety and maintenance is an issue, then why are none for sale? The guys that know more than anyone else are the owners and they are holding tight to their treasures. :thumbup:

I will add one more PURE OPINION. The Commander prices have definitely gone up in the increased demand for airplanes we have seen in the last 18 months. Best I can tell, Navajo prices remains mostly unchanged, maybe sofer.

Jg

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 Post subject: Re: Late 60’s Shrike Commander vs late 70’s Navajo C
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2021, 07:50 
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 Post subject: Re: Late 60’s Shrike Commander vs late 70’s Navajo C
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2021, 08:07 
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Friend of mine has a 500 with the 350hp Lycomings STC. He loves it.


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 Post subject: Re: Late 60’s Shrike Commander vs late 70’s Navajo C
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2021, 08:16 
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If you really want to know about the commander get this book about the life and airplanes built by Ted Smith

https://starsandcommanders.com/


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