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29 Nov 2021, 01:20 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Mooney For Sale ...... Again
PostPosted: 18 Oct 2021, 20:59 
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Joined: 08/08/12
Posts: 179
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Location: KSGR Sugar Land
Aircraft: 1980 M20J Missile300
https://www.bizquest.com/business-for-sale/legendary-aircraft-manufacturer/BW1902593/?_cv_index=3&_cv_name=searchagent&_cv_scope=2&_cv_value=csa&u_api=1

https://www.bizquest.com/shared/listings/190/1902593/544b9684-095f-4667-8d2f-3119477e0fab.pdf

Does anyone have any market intel on this? It is almost comical yet sad how the current owners are apparently trying to peddle this to yet another potential "buyer". The ad looks like something that belongs on Barnstormers..Only asking $15 million! The "Confidential" Strategy Overview attached to the ad is dated December 2020 and quite pie in the sky.


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 Post subject: Re: Mooney For Sale ...... Again
PostPosted: 18 Oct 2021, 23:24 
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Joined: 12/10/07
Posts: 21470
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Location: Minneapolis, MN (KFCM)
Aircraft: 1970 Baron B55
They're just looking for someone with a large fortune that wants to make a small one.

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-lance

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.


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 Post subject: Re: Mooney For Sale ...... Again
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2021, 00:36 
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Joined: 02/03/11
Posts: 7187
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Company: Gee Bee Aeroproducts
Aircraft: hang glider
Get the Covid vaccine mfgs to buy

The have no product liability for there products

Perfect to pass a bill thru government to mfg aircraft with no liability.

Reduction of mfg cost by 1/3

GB


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 Post subject: Re: Mooney For Sale ...... Again
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2021, 11:52 
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Location: KSGR Sugar Land
Aircraft: 1980 M20J Missile300
Username Protected wrote:

Reduction of mfg cost by 1/3

GB

Do you mean reduce the theoretical mfg cost if they were actually producing airplanes at a sustainable rate? They haven't built any aircraft in 2 years. Since they lost their workforce this largely handmade plane will probably cost 50% more as they fumble around on start-up.


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 Post subject: Re: Mooney For Sale ...... Again
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2021, 12:06 
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Company: Gee Bee Aeroproducts
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1/3 the cost of a new aircraft is product liability insurance

add ..

Union cost etc



In 1987 , the F33a was 133k, The union would not build more than 200 units unless they contract was changed





:whiteflag:


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 Post subject: Re: Mooney For Sale ...... Again
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2021, 12:19 
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Joined: 08/08/12
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Location: KSGR Sugar Land
Aircraft: 1980 M20J Missile300
Username Protected wrote:
1/3 the cost of a new aircraft is product liability insurance

add ..

Union cost etc

In 1987 , the F33a was 133k, The union would not build more than 200 units unless they contract was changed

:whiteflag:

As far as I know there is no union in Kerrville. Mooney has always been paying rock bottom to everyone except management. I suspect most workers have found better paying jobs elsewhere.

When you said reduce 1/3 mfg cost I thought you meant reduce the manhours in this largely hand crafted plane. There was a statement on the Mooney Corp website (since removed) that acknowledged that the manhours to build a Mooney were way too high.


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 Post subject: Re: Mooney For Sale ...... Again
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2021, 20:14 
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Location: VUJ, Locust, NC
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Username Protected wrote:
https://www.bizquest.com/business-for-sale/legendary-aircraft-manufacturer/BW1902593/?_cv_index=3&_cv_name=searchagent&_cv_scope=2&_cv_value=csa&u_api=1

https://www.bizquest.com/shared/listings/190/1902593/544b9684-095f-4667-8d2f-3119477e0fab.pdf

Does anyone have any market intel on this? It is almost comical yet sad how the current owners are apparently trying to peddle this to yet another potential "buyer". The ad looks like something that belongs on Barnstormers..Only asking $15 million! The "Confidential" Strategy Overview attached to the ad is dated December 2020 and quite pie in the sky.


Did you know that "pie in the sky" was first ever used in a song written by union organizer Joe Hill in 1911?
I agree, almost comical and sad. Who would not see that as pie in the sky?


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 Post subject: Re: Mooney For Sale ...... Again
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2021, 20:42 
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Joined: 01/22/19
Posts: 348
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Location: KFXE
Mooney is more than single engine airplanes. They have done a lot of contract aero structures work over the years, and that is always a good source of income. In some years that type of work will net much more than making Mooneys.

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 Post subject: Re: Mooney For Sale ...... Again
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2021, 21:13 
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Joined: 06/17/14
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Location: KJYO
Aircraft: C-182, GA-7
This almost moves me to tears. They are too late to bring TKS, AC, and a chore to market. However, I do enjoy flying behind Lycoming power


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 Post subject: Re: Mooney For Sale ...... Again
PostPosted: 20 Oct 2021, 08:08 
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Joined: 05/03/12
Posts: 1836
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Location: Wichita, KS
Aircraft: Mooney 201
Username Protected wrote:
This almost moves me to tears. They are too late to bring TKS, AC, and a chore to market. However, I do enjoy flying behind Lycoming power


Uh, they've had FIKI TKS and AC available for many years. No chute of course, and it seems that is required these days, unfortunately. Their last Lycoming plane ended production in 2005 or 2006. Only Continental 550's from that point forward.


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 Post subject: Re: Mooney For Sale ...... Again
PostPosted: 20 Oct 2021, 09:03 
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Joined: 04/28/21
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Company: Charwood Partners
Honestly, it'd be interesting to sign the NDA and get all of the actual info on financials and actual development. I've spent some time behind one of the last two-door acclaim ultras, and it's a damned nice airplane.

The unfortunate reality of todays general aviation manufacturer is that management and imaging is more important than the product...


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 Post subject: Re: Mooney For Sale ...... Again
PostPosted: 24 Oct 2021, 22:58 
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Location: Dalton, Ga. KDNN
Ground Hog Day.

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Mooney Bravo & Just Superstol


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 Post subject: Re: Mooney For Sale ...... Again
PostPosted: 25 Oct 2021, 09:33 
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Joined: 01/22/19
Posts: 348
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Location: KFXE
[quote="Richard Wootten"

The unfortunate reality of todays general aviation manufacturer is that management and imaging is more important than the product...[/quote]

That implies that people smart enough to acquire the net worth to afford a new airplane, are also not smart enough to pick the best plane to buy.

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A&P/IA/CFI/avionics tech KFXE


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 Post subject: Re: Mooney For Sale ...... Again
PostPosted: 25 Oct 2021, 11:45 
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Joined: 01/23/18
Posts: 170
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Aircraft: Aerostar
https://www.bizquest.com/shared/listing ... 7e0fab.pdf

I’m with Richard, I’d like to take a look under the hood.

According to the graph for parts sales and assuming the forecast parts sales for 4th quarter FY2020 they sold $990K in parts.

X .55 (Ave mark up) = $544,500

There are different ways to value a business:

1. Replacement cost is going to produce a high number
2. Estimated liquidation proceeds is going to produce a much lower number.

3. Earnings (assuming they are real) are worth paying for.
How much did it cost in overhead to sell those parts?

4. Beyond current earnings, is the potential for future earnings growth, either through cost savings or growing sales.

In my opinion the right move would be a merger with Aerostar Aircraft Corporation.

The folks @ AAC have demonstrated their ability to support the Aerostar fleet, I have no doubt they could achieve some cost savings out of serving a larger fleet of aircraft.
The alternative is a continuing winding down of Mooney that ends up with an orphaned fleet.

If had Bill Gates money, I’d offer $5MM for the entire company, get the folks at AAC to get approval for the Garmin Emergency Autoland in both the Aerostar and the Mooney, and crank up the Kerrville assembly line turning out Aerostars , Mooney’s and the little Mooney trainer all powered by Lycoming i2E engines.
With the advent of G100 fuel, I think spark ignition aircraft engines are going to be around for a lot longer than conventional wisdom would expect.

Put auto-feather and rudder-boost on the Aerostars.
Offer an optional chute chute on the singles and make auto-land standard on every plane built.

Figure 100 planes a year (50 of each type) to start, ramping up to 100 each year two plus another 100/year of the little Mooney once it’s certified.

Price the Aerostars at $1.00 less than whatever Piper is asking for the Mirage, price the Mooneys (with the chute) at $1.00 less than a Cirrus.

Price the trainer at $1.00 less than a new C-182.

“Sure it’s more than a PA-28 or a C172, but it has Auto-Land!”

Heck if a flight school wants to buy ten we’ll price them like new C172s.


Would it be a way to make a small fortune in aviation? …Maybe but Cirrus has proven that there is a customer demand for new aircraft designed to be safe(r).

Customers have been willing to sacrifice performance for the safety improvements like the chute and luxury car like interior styling.

The long line to purchase a new Cirrus is a sign that there is significant demand.

I think it would be fun to use modern technology to make existing proven airframes, safer, faster than the competition, and less expensive (assuming volume production).

:scratch:


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 Post subject: Re: Mooney For Sale ...... Again
PostPosted: 25 Oct 2021, 12:25 
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Joined: 11/20/16
Posts: 4601
Post Likes: +5327
Location: Austin, TX area
Aircraft: F33A Bonanza
It's an airplane just too expensive to build at any reasonable sale price. There are a lot of custom, hand made welded structures and pieces then covered by aluminum and composites in the latter models. Any decent welder can make double or more in the oil patch. My nephew was making $100k/yr not long after trade school as a welder.


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