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29 Nov 2021, 02:11 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: HondaJet going big
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2021, 10:54 
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If they build a SP jet that can do NY-LA direct in winter, they have a game changer on their hands. No other aircraft can do that except the rare-as-hen's-teeth SJ30. Even better if they do it with their own engine and can get you away from the Williams Mafia.

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 Post subject: Re: HondaJet going big
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2021, 15:21 
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The rumor is that GE is out. If true, it will be a Pratt or Williams engine.

The thing that's most curious is why they announced this at all. If they move extremely quickly, it will take 3-5 years to go from a fiberglass mockup to a certified airplane. Why give Textron and Embraer that time to work on their response?


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 Post subject: Re: HondaJet going big
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2021, 16:04 
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Why give Textron and Embraer that time to work on their response?

To make customers hesitate singing a sales contract with Textron or Embraer.

"I was gong to buy a CJ4, but now, I think I will wait..."

Also, to steal the limelight.

I tried VERY hard to get an SP jet that can do west coast non stop reliably. The only thing I can find is an S550 with Williams conversion, but hard to find, has compromises and limitations, so I ended up with a V which can do it non stop 75% of the time. It basically fails to go west in the winter but all other situations does it non stop.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: HondaJet going big
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2021, 17:38 
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They’ve announced the range but not the engines. That seems odd. Does GE have an engine that would work?

Honda makes engines, which is unusual for an airframe maker. The implication is that they will build one to suit. Would need to be in the 3500 lbf class based on weight/size.

If Honda doesn't build an engine for it, the only existing engine that really fits is a Williams FJ44-4, like CJ4 and PC-24 use.

Mike C.


I forgot that. That said though, I don't know to what extent Honda contributed to the 50/50 joint venture, but given GE makes jet engines and Honda (at the time) made cars, I would assume GE was the heavy lifting on the engineering side. I would speculate the HF120 core is based on some existing GE engine (Walter?).

Maybe they are adding some new technology like blade cooling or single crystal blades to an existing design GE has to get the efficiency up.

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 Post subject: Re: HondaJet going big
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2021, 19:21 
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Why give Textron and Embraer that time to work on their response?

To make customers hesitate singing a sales contract with Textron or Embraer.

"I was gong to buy a CJ4, but now, I think I will wait..."

Also, to steal the limelight.

I tried VERY hard to get an SP jet that can do west coast non stop reliably. The only thing I can find is an S550 with Williams conversion, but hard to find, has compromises and limitations, so I ended up with a V which can do it non stop 75% of the time. It basically fails to go west in the winter but all other situations does it non stop.


If they were a year from launch, sure.

But it’s extremely unlikely that someone wants a jet anytime soon is going to wait 3-5 years to pull the trigger because of this mockup. They’ll just get a CJ4 or Phenom 300 and upgrade once something better is available.

And Honda had made it that much more likely that it will be to a CJ5 or a Phenom 400.

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 Post subject: Re: HondaJet going big
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2021, 22:09 
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If they can actually realize the +600nm range, 20% efficiency, and deliver for $10M they will give Embraer a run for their money. I'll believe it when I see it.
If Honda's unique features like OTW and NLF are the big advantages they claim and not just marketing spin it might be tough to match them with a quickie derivative of an older design that lacks those advantages. Even if Honda management just believes that to be the case it would explain their confidence in exposing the new jet so early. In a few years, when Textron and Embraer either do or don't one-up the new HJ before it arrives, we'll find out if Honda management's confidence was or was not mistaken.


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 Post subject: Re: HondaJet going big
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2021, 22:40 
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Username Protected wrote:
Also, to steal the limelight.

I tried VERY hard to get an SP jet that can do west coast non stop reliably. The only thing I can find is an S550 with Williams conversion, but hard to find, has compromises and limitations, so I ended up with a V which can do it non stop 75% of the time. It basically fails to go west in the winter but all other situations does it non stop.

Mike C.


It does 2300nm+45min reserves?

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 Post subject: Re: HondaJet going big
PostPosted: 17 Oct 2021, 18:53 
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Glad to hear they are doing this.
I know they already have some NDA Pre-sold versions.

The owners rave about the integrity of the company.

Excited for them.
Tj


"Integrity of the company"

That's why Americans bought Japanese cars; the company's integrity prevents them from putting out junk like American cars, even when the Japanese cars are assembled in the US. This year I bought a Honda and will not buy an American car again.....except for that vintage Stingray I want. :D

Gone are the days of car guys like Lee Iacocca and Bunky Knudsen, and the car companies lost their souls, as Boeing has lost theirs. All jet manufacturers should keep an eye on Honda and not underestimate them.


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