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28 Mar 2024, 05:09 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: RR Gets Contract to Re-Engine the B-52
PostPosted: 25 Sep 2021, 07:39 
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The BUFF will continue to be an eight engine aircraft.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/4 ... mber-fleet

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 Post subject: Re: RR Gets Contract to Re-Engine the B-52
PostPosted: 25 Sep 2021, 07:52 
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I liked the idea of 4 bigger engines back when GE was pitching it. Of course, I did work at GE Aircraft Engines for a while.


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 Post subject: Re: RR Gets Contract to Re-Engine the B-52
PostPosted: 25 Sep 2021, 08:56 
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To be completed in 2038? That is an extremely long timeframe to update a mere 76 aircraft.

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 Post subject: Re: RR Gets Contract to Re-Engine the B-52
PostPosted: 25 Sep 2021, 09:59 
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To be completed in 2038? That is an extremely long timeframe to update a mere 76 aircraft.


76 Aircraft that are 70 years old, absolutely have to work every time, and that can’t all be taken out of service at the same time. I’m fine with them taking a while. Gives them a chance to find any problems in the first few before they are all done.


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 Post subject: Re: RR Gets Contract to Re-Engine the B-52
PostPosted: 25 Sep 2021, 10:06 
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To be completed in 2038?

That may be the end of the support contract, not when the mods are all done, which could be earlier.

As I understand it, the problem with using single larger engines per pylon is ground clearance.

$2M overhaul for a 6000 hour TBO on the TF33 doesn't sound all that bad, actually.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: RR Gets Contract to Re-Engine the B-52
PostPosted: 25 Sep 2021, 10:14 
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To be completed in 2038? That is an extremely long timeframe to update a mere 76 aircraft.

Assuming they get started in the next year or so, that’s five aircraft per year. There are other upgrades planned besides the engines. The conversion could easily take six months to a year for each aircraft. Finding a place to park three to five B-52s indoors for at least part of the process might be one limiting factor. Another might be the government’s desire to spread the cost out over more years to be able to fund other programs at the same time.

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 Post subject: Re: RR Gets Contract to Re-Engine the B-52
PostPosted: 25 Sep 2021, 11:39 
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40% better fuel efficiency and a modern engine that is well supported will be a real help.


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 Post subject: Re: RR Gets Contract to Re-Engine the B-52
PostPosted: 25 Sep 2021, 14:13 
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I cannot imagine how creaky the aging B52 fleet is.

They'll never get funding for a replacement fleet of subsonic heavy bombers, no matter how much sense it makes. The politics will not happen, short of another world war.


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 Post subject: Re: RR Gets Contract to Re-Engine the B-52
PostPosted: 25 Sep 2021, 14:34 
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I cannot imagine how creaky the aging B52 fleet is.

Talking to folks in the B-52 community, the airframes are fine. Avionics have been updated to keep it compatible with today’s weapons. It will not be able to penetrate a modern air defense system but it’s long range and loiter times (made even better by the new engines) plus large useful load will make it a great stand-off weapon carrier for a long time to come.

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 Post subject: Re: RR Gets Contract to Re-Engine the B-52
PostPosted: 25 Sep 2021, 19:06 
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When was the last time these machines were actually needed for a useful purpose?


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 Post subject: Re: RR Gets Contract to Re-Engine the B-52
PostPosted: 25 Sep 2021, 19:17 
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When was the last time these machines were actually needed for a useful purpose?


I feel the same way about insurance.
;)

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 Post subject: Re: RR Gets Contract to Re-Engine the B-52
PostPosted: 25 Sep 2021, 19:30 
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When was the last time these machines were actually needed for a useful purpose?

Aug 2021, Afghanistan.

It is a hell of a bomb truck with a lengthy loiter time. JDAMs permit it to stand-off and squirt a few precision warheads as ordered-up by the boots on the ground. Think: Laser designators and warheads for foreheads - 35 tons worth.

JDAMs really changed the mission for the BUFF. It is no longer the carpet bombing machine of the prior century. And … there is considerable flexibility in the munitions load and ELINT gear.

Of course; if you want to send a psychological reminder and have air superiority, carpet bombing still delivers one hell of a message.

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Last edited on 25 Sep 2021, 19:50, edited 6 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: RR Gets Contract to Re-Engine the B-52
PostPosted: 25 Sep 2021, 19:37 
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When was the last time these machines were actually needed for a useful purpose?

Needed? We haven’t needed many of the weapons in DoD since WWII. We’ve never needed any nuclear weapons after the first two we dropped. The main reason we never needed those nuclear weapons is because we had them and were prepared to use them.

We build our military to counter the worst threat. After WWII thru the collapse of the Soviet Union, that threat was the Soviets. After the Soviet Union collapsed, there was a short period where we had no peer adversaries. We got involved in the Middle East and used weapons designed for WWIII for fight counter-insurgency campaigns, Desert Storm being a brief exception. Now we have China as a rapidly growing threat. A long-range aircraft capable of employing multiple stand-off weapons would be necessary in any fight with China.

By having a military capable of defeating the most capable threat, we cause that threat to think twice before committing rash actions. We keep their military on the sidelines (along with our military) and force them to compete in other areas. We are a democracy. We believe in freedom, equal opportunity and the rule of law. Those are powerful ideas that people all over the world yearn to share. The Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact collapsed because our weapons and military kept the Soviet military in their barracks from 1945 until 1989 when those democratic ideas brought down the Berlin Wall.

China is working hard to build alliances and gain access to resources. But many nations are discovering that accepting Chinese assistance is a pact with the devil. If we can keep the Chinese military in their barracks for another twenty or thirty years, we stand a good chance of defeating them on the field of ideas without ever engaging them on the field of battle.

That’s the great irony of warfare: having a strong military frequently prevents its use while lacking a strong military even more frequently proves its necessity.

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 Post subject: Re: RR Gets Contract to Re-Engine the B-52
PostPosted: 25 Sep 2021, 19:39 
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Username Protected wrote:
When was the last time these machines were actually needed for a useful purpose?

Aug 2021, Afghanistan.

It is a hell of a bomb truck with a lengthy loiter time. JDAMs permit it to stand-off and squirt a few precision warheads for foreheads as required - 35 tons worth. JDAMs really changed the game.


Carries

-JDAMs

-Cruise Missiles

-MOAB

-Nukes

-A metric crap ton of dumb bombs should we ever need to reduce some country to the Stone Age without the headache of using nukes.

Sounds pretty darn useful to me.

The planes are fully depreciated. We’ve gotten our money out of them. They’re the cheapest per pound-hour option in the air force fleet. I’m all for putting a half a billion into them as opposed to several billion on a replacement that will take forever, not be as good, and cost ten times what it is estimated to. Even if the engine upgrade does a 10x cost of a typical .gov program its still a good deal.

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 Post subject: Re: RR Gets Contract to Re-Engine the B-52
PostPosted: 25 Sep 2021, 19:57 
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So their purpose is a deterrent against the Chinese? I’m OK with that. The hours we put on the old engines is apparently training? Would it not be financially better to just keep overhauling the old engines for $16 million per 6000 hours? That’s a lot of training. I’m trying to understand the why of this expense.


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