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29 Nov 2021, 02:01 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: 441 Conquest II Torque split
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2021, 21:30 
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Location: KAPA
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I know there are not too many 441 pilots out there but I'm hoping for some help. Are these engine indications normal in a 441 (or any TPE-331-10)? Also what speeds are to be expected with the -10? With the different STCs, props, VGs, winglets, etc. it's hard to know what normal or good is.

And to answer your question, I have no idea why they left the packing film on the screens for two years. Glare was awful.


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 Post subject: Re: 441 Conquest II Torque split
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2021, 21:47 
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Location: Owosso, MI (KRNP)
Aircraft: 1969 Bonanza V35A
It appears they should be matching torques instead of EGT. I’m not super familiar with the 441, but I would imagine there are compensators for the EGT’s. I’m the a Metro’s similar SRL system it gave maintenance 20 degrees of compensation iIRC. However, they appear to be matched pretty close.

I usually seen the -10 441 with National winglets Max at around 300 KTAS at Fl320, ISA. Above that speed slowed to around 290-293 KTAS at FL350.


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 Post subject: Re: 441 Conquest II Torque split
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2021, 23:31 
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I believe Tq and EGT are both spoofed.
Fuel flow being the only direct read (doesn’t mean it’s correct).

PITA dialing in all the rigging.

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 Post subject: Re: 441 Conquest II Torque split
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2021, 23:46 
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Right engine shows significantly higher torque and fuel flow at equal EGT's.

Possible EGT problem, Left High or Right Low.

Check with bleeds off also.

Don't remember enough to go further.


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 Post subject: Re: 441 Conquest II Torque split
PostPosted: 17 Sep 2021, 08:35 
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I have a more pessimistic view. There's probably something going on with the Fuel Control Unit or hot section on the left engine.


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 Post subject: Re: 441 Conquest II Torque split
PostPosted: 17 Sep 2021, 09:50 
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I agree with Michael. If you raised the fuel flow on the left to match the right the torque increase would most likely match but the EGT would be above where you want to be so that tells you that the left engine runs hotter for a given power setting. That would point to the hot section.


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 Post subject: Re: 441 Conquest II Torque split
PostPosted: 17 Sep 2021, 11:27 
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Matching temps on a twin turbine and expecting matching torques would be like matching CHTs on a Baron and being surprised when fuel flow and manifold pressures didn't match.

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 Post subject: Re: 441 Conquest II Torque split
PostPosted: 17 Sep 2021, 14:06 
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Matching temps on a twin turbine and expecting matching torques would be like matching CHTs on a Baron and being surprised when fuel flow and manifold pressures didn't match.

I dunno, my engines match pretty close. 1% TQ difference and 5deg Temp difference maybe. A pound or two fuel flow difference. :shrug:

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 Post subject: Re: 441 Conquest II Torque split
PostPosted: 17 Sep 2021, 16:30 
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RH fuel flow seems high for the altitude. I’d have the EGT comps checked, ΔP/P and temp probes also. LH fuel flow seems much closer to what I’d expect for the altitude.


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 Post subject: Re: 441 Conquest II Torque split
PostPosted: 17 Sep 2021, 18:35 
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Username Protected wrote:
Matching temps on a twin turbine and expecting matching torques would be like matching CHTs on a Baron and being surprised when fuel flow and manifold pressures didn't match.

I dunno, my engines match pretty close. 1% TQ difference and 5deg Temp difference maybe. A pound or two fuel flow difference. :shrug:


Do you think yours naturally match that nicely or did the mechanics trim the indications to make them match like that? I always figured engines were like kids, they are all just a little different no matter how similarly they are raised. In any case, I'd think that you would want to match RPM and Torque which will give identical HP on each wing and then describe the differences in the engine performance as fuel flow and temp, not match RPM and temps and describe the differences as torque and fuel flow.
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 Post subject: Re: 441 Conquest II Torque split
PostPosted: 17 Sep 2021, 19:27 
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The mechs trim the EGT compensation to get em to match.


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 Post subject: Re: 441 Conquest II Torque split
PostPosted: 17 Sep 2021, 23:45 
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One thing I’ve learned as both a technical professional and multi-turbine pilot is this: If the #1 and #2 (up to …N) all are in perfect harmony, there’s nary an operator who will question their accuracy.


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 Post subject: Re: 441 Conquest II Torque split
PostPosted: 18 Sep 2021, 00:09 
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Username Protected wrote:
The mechs trim the EGT compensation to get em to match.

Not generally in my experience.

For my former TPE331 engines, the EGT compensation was set on the test stand during the overhaul dyno run. They have never been adjusted.

Torques are set with a precise pressure table also generated on the dyno to calibrate the torque sensor.

Fuel flow is by impeller sensor and isn't adjustable in anyway (at least not on an MU2).

My gauges matched quite nicely, like Carlson's did.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: 441 Conquest II Torque split
PostPosted: 18 Sep 2021, 08:04 
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Every time I've tried to justify low indicated engine performance on a gauge or probe, I've been wrong 100% of the time. It's always the engine. Trimming the EGT compensator would be like switching to an oversize blood pressure cuff and then claiming your blood pressure is now normal. No, it's still high, you just tricked the instrument into reading normal.

You may be lucky and have a massive bleed air leak but if not, it's the hot section talking to you.


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 Post subject: Re: 441 Conquest II Torque split
PostPosted: 18 Sep 2021, 08:42 
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Location: Burlington VT KBTV
Aircraft: C441 N441WD
I would like to know what the readings are below temp limits when you’re matched at say 1500# of torque per side. Then Match FF and see what you get for torque and egt. Your fuel computer is telling the FCU how much fuel
It will get to maintain 449 deg.
Trying to perfectly match all the parameters is pretty tough. Were the Hot sections done at the same time on the engines?
We have the old analog gauges so I don’t know how yours are set up and if the analog to digital interface is spot on.


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