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18 Apr 2024, 11:13 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Interesting story on Virgin Galactic's July flight
PostPosted: 01 Sep 2021, 21:26 
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Same author who wrote Test Gods.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-des ... ace-flight
Seems the trajectory was somewhat depressed from the desired.
Jay

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting story on Virgin Galactic's July flight
PostPosted: 01 Sep 2021, 22:19 
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Kind of stunning this entire flight trajectory isn’t 100% automated.

There is not enough money on earth to make me ride on that thing. Just seems like an accident waiting to happen.


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 Post subject: Re: Interesting story on Virgin Galactic's July flight
PostPosted: 01 Sep 2021, 22:22 
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The pilots not aborting on the red light sounds like a serious management issue to let them feel that "completing" the flight was worth going outside of standard procedures.

Its awfully dangerous and expensive for an amusement park ride.

But if there are people willing to take the risk , they are welcome to it.


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 Post subject: Re: Interesting story on Virgin Galactic's July flight
PostPosted: 01 Sep 2021, 22:40 
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“When the vehicle encountered high altitude winds which changed the trajectory, the pilots and systems monitored the trajectory to ensure it remained within mission parameters. Our pilots responded appropriately to these changing flight conditions exactly as they have been trained and in strict accordance with our established procedures.”

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting story on Virgin Galactic's July flight
PostPosted: 02 Sep 2021, 00:14 
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I might do it if it were free, but it wouldn't mean much. Actually getting to orbit on the other hand - I'd take a lot of risk and spend a lot of $$$ for that - but I don't have the sort of cash it takes to actually do that.

Username Protected wrote:
Kind of stunning this entire flight trajectory isn’t 100% automated.

There is not enough money on earth to make me ride on that thing. Just seems like an accident waiting to happen.


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 Post subject: Re: Interesting story on Virgin Galactic's July flight
PostPosted: 02 Sep 2021, 07:46 
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Did they file an ASRS report?


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 Post subject: Re: Interesting story on Virgin Galactic's July flight
PostPosted: 02 Sep 2021, 07:55 
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The larger story is kind of an interesting innovation story.

Burt Rutan teams up with Paul Allen to win the X prize 20 years ago - two suborbital flights within a short time period. The SpaceShipOne / WhiteKnight was the most advanced, and most proven, platform. No surprise big investors signed on to make a commercial version.

But the design was basically maxed out - it would just barely do what was needed to win the X prize, there wasn’t as much room to grow as the investors wanted for a commercial program. And commercial suborbital is a small market.

At the same time, SpaceX started chasing a bigger market - putting satellites into space and servicing the Space Station. The bigger market let them get contracts, government support, and even bigger investor dollars. They were playing a much bigger game than Virgin Galactic. And have been safer in terms of human lives and more impressive in revenues and business results.


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 Post subject: Re: Interesting story on Virgin Galactic's July flight
PostPosted: 02 Sep 2021, 18:49 
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 Post subject: Re: Interesting story on Virgin Galactic's July flight
PostPosted: 02 Sep 2021, 18:51 
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FAA grounds SS2 pending the results of their investigation.

Former Virgin Galactic Flight Test Director Mark "Forger" Stucky said the following on Twitter: "The most misleading statement today was Virgin Galactic's. The facts are the pilots failed to trim to achieve the proper pitch rate, the winds were well within limits, they did nothing of substance to address the trajectory error, and entered Class A airspace without authorization."

IIRC, Stuckey was fired the day after this flight. More:

https://min.news/en/tech/c8b61da5643afe ... b9c63.html

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting story on Virgin Galactic's July flight
PostPosted: 04 Sep 2021, 11:46 
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Username Protected wrote:
FAA grounds SS2 pending the results of their investigation.

Former Virgin Galactic Flight Test Director Mark "Forger" Stucky said the following on Twitter: "The most misleading statement today was Virgin Galactic's. The facts are the pilots failed to trim to achieve the proper pitch rate, the winds were well within limits, they did nothing of substance to address the trajectory error, and entered Class A airspace without authorization."

IIRC, Stuckey was fired the day after this flight. More:

https://min.news/en/tech/c8b61da5643afe ... b9c63.html

Yeah, I posted on this in a different thread, but there is growing evidence of a problem with the safety culture at VG. Even if that turns out to not be the case, you still have a tricky, hand-flown space-plane that arguably doesn't even get to space. I too would not spend money on it, and in light of what I know, would decline a free ride. I'd gladly hop aboard a Dragon, or even a Blue Origin flight.

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting story on Virgin Galactic's July flight
PostPosted: 27 Mar 2023, 12:06 
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No flights in almost 2 years. No news except shareholder lawsuits in November 2022 and February this year. Crickets. Is it DOA?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlieporterfield/2022/11/07/billionaire-richard-branson-must-face-fraud-suit-from-virgin-galactic-shareholders/?sh=e4fd6d669607

https://gizmodo.com/stockholder-sues-virgin-galactic-for-lying-about-flight-1850128781


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 Post subject: Re: Interesting story on Virgin Galactic's July flight
PostPosted: 28 Mar 2023, 00:32 
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I have stopped following them as closely as I was before but they basically had a stand down and have been addressing problems with White Knight and the Space Ship. Unity, or whatever they are calling it now. They conducted test flights of the carrier ship and I think they have it at the Spaceport in NM now. They are talking about doing captive carry test flights soon and then passengers. We'll see. Meanwhile, Branson's Virgin Orbit Corp is in serious financial trouble. This is another of those companies that I thought had serious potential at one point. Maybe they still do. I have given up on the other one though, ICON.

Interestingly and I may have posted this back in 2021 on a different thread...

I was there in NM -all alone in the desert- watching the last launch in July of 2021 with Branson on board. I was able to position myself at the downwind to base turn when the space ship came gliding in for a landing. It was very cool to watch. I could tell they had strayed from their assigned area bc the sonic booms on re-entry were so far away and downwind. The other thing that really struck me was how aggressive the roll into the base and final turns were. Almost like an aerobatic airplane returning to the runway. I got a hell of a good look at the belly of the ship though. :thumbup:

Btw, the book Test Gods by Nicholas Schmidle about the early development of this program is a fantastic read. Also, Mark Stucky, one of the early test pilots who got fired for speaking the truth after the Branson flight, sure seems like a hell of a guy.

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting story on Virgin Galactic's July flight
PostPosted: 28 Mar 2023, 16:51 
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Username Protected wrote:
No flights in almost 2 years. No news except shareholder lawsuits in November 2022 and February this year. Crickets. Is it DOA?

This program is past its time. The concept and vehicles were designed in 2004, four years before Falcon 1 made it to orbit. Computerized flight controls were possible, but would be expensive to design and test, and since a pilot would be desired anyway, why not let them fly, right?

Fast forward twenty years and the ship is an antique, and a dangerous one at that with construction and flight control issues. So now they have a hand flown "space" craft that is apparently challenging to manage, and flown by the most flawed flight control system (human) available. Oh, and it arguably doesn't make it to space anyway.

I don't see it being viable going forward, and despite Branson's enthusiasm for it he's not stupid. If he's wavering on bailing out a much more promising Virgin Orbit, I don't see Galactic surviving.

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting story on Virgin Galactic's July flight
PostPosted: 28 Mar 2023, 21:44 
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Username Protected wrote:
No flights in almost 2 years. No news except shareholder lawsuits in November 2022 and February this year. Crickets. Is it DOA?

This program is past its time. The concept and vehicles were designed in 2004, four years before Falcon 1 made it to orbit. Computerized flight controls were possible, but would be expensive to design and test, and since a pilot would be desired anyway, why not let them fly, right?

Fast forward twenty years and the ship is an antique, and a dangerous one at that with construction and flight control issues. So now they have a hand flown "space" craft that is apparently challenging to manage, and flown by the most flawed flight control system (human) available. Oh, and it arguably doesn't make it to space anyway.

I don't see it being viable going forward, and despite Branson's enthusiasm for it he's not stupid. If he's wavering on bailing out a much more promising Virgin Orbit, I don't see Galactic surviving.

The State of New Mexico got sucked into committing $275 million to build SpacePort America and a road in 2006. On top of Capes ther is the annual Opex cost for administration, overhead and to maintain and provide security and utilites, etc. The State says they have taken in about $55 million in revenue since inception of the SpacePort - about $37 million of that from Virgin Galactic alone. If Virgin folds the program and leaves then the SpacePort will require even more state support and subsides.

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting story on Virgin Galactic's July flight
PostPosted: 29 Mar 2023, 12:38 
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Username Protected wrote:
If Virgin folds the program and leaves then the SpacePort will require even more state support and subsides.

Or they abandon it and cut their losses. Who else uses the facility?

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