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 Post subject: Re: $1MM Meridian vs. $1MM TBM
PostPosted: 14 Sep 2021, 18:37 
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Username Protected wrote:
Altitude wise, depending on exactly where you’re crossing DFW 10,500-11,500 may be better. Arrivals are descending to 12k.

DFW class B tops out at 11,000 ft, so 10,500 ft would be bad. Minimum west bound would be 12,500 ft.

Mike C.


I've asked for 10,500 VFR multiple times, and told "unable" every time. so 12,500 it is.

And to be clear, I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm trying to figure out how I can best work around something that I find especially inconvenient. If the answer really is "go around" that's fine, i'll squawk 1200, go over the top, and move about my day.

Last time I did this, I had an IFR flight plan from a random GPS fix to my destination and got the lecture.

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 Post subject: Re: $1MM Meridian vs. $1MM TBM
PostPosted: 14 Sep 2021, 19:38 
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Username Protected wrote:

I've asked for 10,500 VFR multiple times, and told "unable" every time. so 12,500 it is.

And to be clear, I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm trying to figure out how I can best work around something that I find especially inconvenient. If the answer really is "go around" that's fine, i'll squawk 1200, go over the top, and move about my day.

Last time I did this, I had an IFR flight plan from a random GPS fix to my destination and got the lecture.


Varies by controller. But you can typically truck through at 10,500-11,500 and not be much of a factor.

I don’t take any of this as argumentative. I’m just trying to help out and give you my perspective and maybe help you find a way to “cheat” the system.


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 Post subject: Re: $1MM Meridian vs. $1MM TBM
PostPosted: 14 Sep 2021, 20:31 
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Username Protected wrote:

Varies by controller. But you can typically truck through at 10,500-11,500 and not be much of a factor.

Why does DFW route descending (climbing?) airliners over the top of the class B? My general thinking is if I am over top of the main airport most of the traffic related to runway ops is well below me. If they are arriving or departing they are coming from somewhere and being vectored into the approaches. So over the top of the airport seems likely to be kind of clear. Why isn’t it?

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-Jon C.


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 Post subject: Re: $1MM Meridian vs. $1MM TBM
PostPosted: 14 Sep 2021, 20:38 
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Joined: 09/09/12
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I’d like to say thanks Mike Coyne. I appreciate the info.

Ok. Free to resume. :-)


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 Post subject: Re: $1MM Meridian vs. $1MM TBM
PostPosted: 14 Sep 2021, 22:27 
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Username Protected wrote:
I’d like to say thanks Mike Coyne. I appreciate the info.

Ok. Free to resume. :-)


I was just thinking the same thing. I fly in and out of DAL about every 6-7 days. With only one runway open @ DAL, it gets busy on the one runway. The Regional Approach controllers do a heck of a job.

Robert T


Last edited on 15 Sep 2021, 05:52, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: $1MM Meridian vs. $1MM TBM
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2021, 03:03 
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Username Protected wrote:

Varies by controller. But you can typically truck through at 10,500-11,500 and not be much of a factor.

Why does DFW route descending (climbing?) airliners over the top of the class B? My general thinking is if I am over top of the main airport most of the traffic related to runway ops is well below me. If they are arriving or departing they are coming from somewhere and being vectored into the approaches. So over the top of the airport seems likely to be kind of clear. Why isn’t it?



Directly over top DFW is clear most of the time in a south flow, north flow it’s almost never clear. We use the 4 corner post arrival method in to DFW (SE,SW,NW,SW arrival routes). Departures go out E,S,N,W. Then you have satellite airports (DAL, ADS, TKI, FTW, AFW, etc) using the space between and getting inline with the DFW stuff. It’s just a really congested airspace. Airplanes everywhere in a chaotic, but proceduralized way.

My apologies for the thread hijack. Was just trying to enlighten a little as to why ATC is doing what they do.

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 Post subject: Re: $1MM Meridian vs. $1MM TBM
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2021, 07:40 
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This discussion definitely deserves it's own thread so that a casual surfer who might be interested in DFW area ops may more easily find it.

Of course, three posts after this is all moved to it's own thread, the topic will take a 270 and never come back.


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 Post subject: Re: $1MM Meridian vs. $1MM TBM
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2021, 17:21 
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Username Protected wrote:
What I'd really like to see is a public database of all the letter agreements the FAA has between facilities, so you could see if there's a pattern, and if so, what it is.
I wish they’d make the LOAs public too, but they won’t for some reason.
Here is something along those lines (click the LOAs tab):
https://www.zfwartcc.net/documents

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 Post subject: Re: $1MM Meridian vs. $1MM TBM
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2021, 18:56 
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Username Protected wrote:
I wish they’d make the LOAs public too, but they won’t for some reason.
Here is something along those lines (click the LOAs tab):
https://www.zfwartcc.net/documents


:bow:

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 Post subject: Re: $1MM Meridian vs. $1MM TBM
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2021, 21:37 
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I toured the KDEN tracon and they showed us a 3D flight path history along final. It was common for the airliners to drop below the Bravo before both of the last airspace steps on final, in a few cases significantly so. If there was a VFR flight 100 ft below hugging the lateral boundaries of the next lower shelf they'd collide.

This is kind of mind-boggling to me. We have this carefully-designed upside-down wedding cake airspace specifically designed to separate the big iron from the bugsmashers and the big iron commonly drops out of the protected airspace into bugsmasher territory? I get that there are additional layers of Swiss cheese in the stack but that isn't exactly reassuring.


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 Post subject: Re: $1MM Meridian vs. $1MM TBM
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2021, 22:44 
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Username Protected wrote:
I toured the KDEN tracon and they showed us a 3D flight path history along final. It was common for the airliners to drop below the Bravo before both of the last airspace steps on final, in a few cases significantly so. If there was a VFR flight 100 ft below hugging the lateral boundaries of the next lower shelf they'd collide.

This is kind of mind-boggling to me. We have this carefully-designed upside-down wedding cake airspace specifically designed to separate the big iron from the bugsmashers and the big iron commonly drops out of the protected airspace into bugsmasher territory? I get that there are additional layers of Swiss cheese in the stack but that isn't exactly reassuring.


Controllers seem pretty sharp where I am. Against the rockies, they won’t put small aircraft 1,000 ft above crossing traffic because they could hit a downdraft and sink into them.

Doesn’t make an airliner flying below glide slope ok but in practice it seems to not be an issue. A good thing for the CFIs in the area to teach students about, not something in the books.

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 Post subject: Re: $1MM Meridian vs. $1MM TBM
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2021, 09:18 
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Before Class B, I was flying a C-182 at 7,500 Ft over Manhattan, almost southbound and above the TCA, in VFR flight following and with all lights on. While switching to a new assigned ATC frequency, I saw a blinding light coming at me from West to East. So fast, nothing I could do. It was a huge TWA B747, passing just below and in front, I could see the passengers in the Boeing side windows. Then, the new JFK controller asked me if a saw a Boeing passing nearby. The TWA Captain got really nervous, he said. It was close!


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 Post subject: Re: $1MM Meridian vs. $1MM TBM
PostPosted: 05 Oct 2021, 08:03 
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A question for the TBM folks. Just started our training in a TBM 850. Our Company plane is a King Air B 350. I’m trying to understand the starting ITT restriction on the TBM. It’s a non-issue in the King Air, we routinely shut down to pick up pax and restart without setting for 45 min or so while it cools down.

One of the few downsides I have seen for the aircraft. (The statistic that 39% of the TBMs have had a prop strike was a little concerning as well).

So, just curious.


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 Post subject: Re: $1MM Meridian vs. $1MM TBM
PostPosted: 05 Oct 2021, 08:36 
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Username Protected wrote:
A question for the TBM folks. Just started our training in a TBM 850. Our Company plane is a King Air B 350. I’m trying to understand the starting ITT restriction on the TBM. It’s a non-issue in the King Air, we routinely shut down to pick up pax and restart without setting for 45 min or so while it cools down.

One of the few downsides I have seen for the aircraft. (The statistic that 39% of the TBMs have had a prop strike was a little concerning as well).

So, just curious.


I am able to do "quick turns" after about 20' or so of waiting. Thats about what it takes to get fuel and pay anyway. There 850 has less airflow than the 900s, so they may be hotter at the start. Another option If I need to drop a pax and run, I'll go to feather and have them hop out the back. It's a bit stinkier (briefly), but works well at rural airports.

If my ITT is warm prior to start (say 225C or so), I just do a motoring start. It takes 20-30 seconds to get the ITT under 140 (I prefer under 135), then you still have 30 seconds remaining to get lit and to 52% when you can take the starter offline. The ITT comes down really quickly while motoring. Checklist says 15 seconds of motoring, but we choose more seconds on the starter in exchange for a cooler start. After all, starters are cheaper than burner cans...

Another thing- the checklist calls for IGNITION OFF during motoring, but I think it puts you at risk for a wet start (then a hot start) if you forget to turn it to AUTO. Worth considering.

-----------

The prop strike thing is simple. People land too fast. the prop is 8.5" off the ground. so if you are fast, and land flat, you're eating gravel. Land at the recommended airspeed and you'll have 3-5 degrees nose up when you touch down. I also land with about 8% power still on, the airplane will settle to the runway in the nose up attitude. (I believe Will Goldberg is teaching this technique.)

Over the numbers at 85kts, and get the "airspeed" audible right before touchdown.

_________________
"Find worthy causes in your life."


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 Post subject: Re: $1MM Meridian vs. $1MM TBM
PostPosted: 05 Oct 2021, 08:46 
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Username Protected wrote:
One of the few downsides I have seen for the aircraft. (The statistic that 39% of the TBMs have had a prop strike was a little concerning as well).

So, just curious.

This correlates with unstable approaches that are usually flown too fast. The huge flaps pitch the nose down when in landing position. Daher and TBMOPA have developed a set of stabilized approach criteria that have essentially prevented prop strikes for any pilot that flies them correctly. The hardest one for me is <95kts IAS (varies by weight) when <500ft AGL. When done right your pitch at touchdown is +5° avoiding any risk of a prop strike.

If you have a G1000 or newer you can download your data and score each landing against the criteria to improve your technique.


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