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 Post subject: Diesel aircraft? DA42, what else?
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2021, 16:56 
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What's out there on the used market with diesel engines?

The DA42 looks interesting to me, especially with G1000/waas and FIKI.

Anything else to look at? Thinking under $500k options, preferably a lot under...


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 Post subject: Re: Diesel aircraft? DA42, what else?
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2021, 18:10 
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Seems like only Diamond. You could get an Austro DA40 but not sure about 500k. Diamond has really embraced diesel, I think you can get a diesel Tecnam too. I have some time in the DA42 and its is a nice airplane, but i found it too cramped (I’m 6’4”). The DA62 is awesome though.

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 Post subject: Re: Diesel aircraft? DA42, what else?
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2021, 18:38 
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Username Protected wrote:
What's out there on the used market with diesel engines?

The DA42 looks interesting to me, especially with G1000/waas and FIKI.

Anything else to look at? Thinking under $500k options, preferably a lot under...


Why not consider an older twin turboprop? Faster than pistons. Older though, likely older avionics. Bigger. Much better in icing, mostly due to the increased climb performance, but much more robust deicing systems. Big one, pressurized. Can be had for under 500K, some a lot under, but those might have near run out engines or need hot sections, you would have to look. FWIW, my plane was purchased for around half your 500K figure. On long trips my fuel burn is 62-65gph takeoff to touchdown, 250-260KTAS in the FL 230-250 range. Support has been amazing and what few parts I have needed were available. Just a thought. I do not regret taking this step, neither does my wife :D


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 Post subject: Re: Diesel aircraft? DA42, what else?
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2021, 19:13 
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DA 42 was great to train in, feels too much like a toy for me to consider for primary ownership

Maybe the 62 is the answer to my opinion, haven’t sat in one


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 Post subject: Re: Diesel aircraft? DA42, what else?
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2021, 22:51 
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I have heard the 62 described as an Aztec in capability and room. But I have not flown in one.


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 Post subject: Re: Diesel aircraft? DA42, what else?
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2021, 09:38 
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I have heard the 62 described as an Aztec in capability and room. But I have not flown in one.

I have an Aztec and my friend has a DA62. He burns less fuel, and it is a few knots faster at 12000 feet but only because it is turbo, and mine is not. That's about the end of any comparison.
The DA62 has a smaller cabin, and you are separated in the rows. If you're claustrophobic, the back row is not for you. You can't get up and move about like you can in an Aztec. And it's not really a seven place plane, unless three people are under the age of 8. It's a five place plane, but without enough baggage space for the five people's bags. It is 300 pounds heavier but has 200 pound less gross weight. So the cabin load is 200 pounds less. They advertise is as needing less fuel because of the economy, and even though it only carries 86 gallons (600 pounds) of fuel versus 144 gallons (864), that weight savings doesn't help because of the lower gross weight and higher empty weight due to the diesels. And it is much more expensive to maintain due to all the life limited components associated with the diesels.
It has a 48 foot wing span, meaning you pay a premium for a large tee hangar. You need at least a 50 foot wide door. Or have to put it in a community hangar.

The fit and finish is top notch. Diamond does a great job there. The A/C system cools the cabin well. It is also much simpler to operate than any other twin due to the FADEC engine controls. It's a good start and hopefully they will expand its' capabilities over time.

And you do save $65 an hour in fuel costs. Of course you have to spend $1.3M to $1.6M to save the $65.

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Last edited on 30 Aug 2021, 10:46, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Diesel aircraft? DA42, what else?
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2021, 10:12 
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Don't forget about the Raptor!

I understand one may be coming on the market cheap.

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 Post subject: Re: Diesel aircraft? DA42, what else?
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2021, 13:46 
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I sort of see the DA42 as the minimum Jet-A (diesel) powered traveling machine for two people.

My price point would be clearly in the used market, under a half-million. There's nothing brand new under $500k except for some trainer class singles.

Turbine is a thought, but even if the acquisition costs are under the 500k mark, the operating and ownership costs go through the roof pretty fast. I'm not ready to embrace the $500k "throw-away-jet" (or turboprop) level of aviation.

So back to Jet-A diesel reciprocating engines - I don't think there's anything other than the DA42 to speak of.


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 Post subject: Re: Diesel aircraft? DA42, what else?
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2021, 13:58 
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For diesel, it's only the Diamonds AFAIK. The only other non-avgas option is from Tecnam - which uses the Rotax engines. They are not diesels, but do burn mogas (in addition to avgas) and are VERY efficient. Comparably efficient (and possibly even more so) than the Austro engines. The Tecnam P2006T is a roomy 4-place retractable twin that is primarily focused on the training market, but at OSH I noted that they had upgraded the cabin furnishings. For a twin the visibility is good because it's a high-wing and the engines are set back a bit from the cabin. No wing-walking. Several of these are available used in your price range. Although the cruise speed is considerably less than a DA42 (140-145 knots). I had a Tecnam LSA (the Astore) for a couple years and enjoyed it a lot - used the Rotax 914 engine.

I am a fan of the Diamonds and have a DA62 on order. Did my multi in a DA42-VI and compared to other legacy twins, that's basically cheating ... lol. The 42 and 62 are ridiculously easy to fly - the most complex thing about them is the G1000. Trailing link landing gear makes you look like a pro and they have excellent crosswind capabilities. I note that the DA40 NG (with the diesel Austro engine) has the same cabin as the DA42 and even new is close to (but above) 500k.

Good luck and let us know what you decide!


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 Post subject: Re: Diesel aircraft? DA42, what else?
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2021, 14:04 
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For the sake of the argument, there is also the SMA engine (on a 182), but I would not recommend it.

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 Post subject: Re: Diesel aircraft? DA42, what else?
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2021, 14:27 
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 Post subject: Re: Diesel aircraft? DA42, what else?
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2021, 15:25 
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Username Protected wrote:
For diesel, it's only the Diamonds AFAIK. The only other non-avgas option is from Tecnam - which uses the Rotax engines. They are not diesels, but do burn mogas (in addition to avgas) and are VERY efficient. Comparably efficient (and possibly even more so) than the Austro engines. The Tecnam P2006T is a roomy 4-place retractable twin that is primarily focused on the training market, but at OSH I noted that they had upgraded the cabin furnishings. For a twin the visibility is good because it's a high-wing and the engines are set back a bit from the cabin. No wing-walking. Several of these are available used in your price range. Although the cruise speed is considerably less than a DA42 (140-145 knots). I had a Tecnam LSA (the Astore) for a couple years and enjoyed it a lot - used the Rotax 914 engine.

I am a fan of the Diamonds and have a DA62 on order. Did my multi in a DA42-VI and compared to other legacy twins, that's basically cheating ... lol. The 42 and 62 are ridiculously easy to fly - the most complex thing about them is the G1000. Trailing link landing gear makes you look like a pro and they have excellent crosswind capabilities. I note that the DA40 NG (with the diesel Austro engine) has the same cabin as the DA42 and even new is close to (but above) 500k.

Good luck and let us know what you decide!


I think the DA62 looks like a very interesting airplane. I find myself thinking "this all looks good" right up until you get to the price; $1.4 Million.

I've been wondering who makes up the market for this plane, it turns out we have a customer who has one on order right here on BT and on this thread. Just curious Joel, what's the value proposition that makes the DA62 a winner for you?

Jack


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 Post subject: Re: Diesel aircraft? DA42, what else?
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2021, 15:38 
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Username Protected wrote:
I think the DA62 looks like a very interesting airplane. I find myself thinking "this all looks good" right up until you get to the price; $1.4 Million.

I've been wondering who makes up the market for this plane, it turns out we have a customer who has one on order right here on BT and on this thread. Just curious Joel, what's the value proposition that makes the DA62 a winner for you?


I'm not Joel but I think it's a winner. It's as close as you can get to a Turboprop in a new aircraft without making that leap. You'll be flying an entirely modern, high tech plane at 185kts on 16gph or less of JetA. can fit 7 people. Next step up the ladder is probably an M500 but it's smaller costs 1m more to buy and burns a lot more fuel.

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 Post subject: Re: Diesel aircraft? DA42, what else?
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2021, 16:13 
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There are at least a few 172s out there that have been converted. Not much of a traveling machine, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Diesel aircraft? DA42, what else?
PostPosted: 31 Aug 2021, 03:28 
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Username Protected wrote:
I think the DA62 looks like a very interesting airplane. I find myself thinking "this all looks good" right up until you get to the price; $1.4 Million.

I've been wondering who makes up the market for this plane, it turns out we have a customer who has one on order right here on BT and on this thread. Just curious Joel, what's the value proposition that makes the DA62 a winner for you?


I'm not Joel but I think it's a winner. It's as close as you can get to a Turboprop in a new aircraft without making that leap. You'll be flying an entirely modern, high tech plane at 185kts on 16gph or less of JetA. can fit 7 people. Next step up the ladder is probably an M500 but it's smaller costs 1m more to buy and burns a lot more fuel.

Lack of pressurization in the DA 62 is a drawback for a turbocharged piston plane that costs $1.4 million.

But if you can get past that, operating costs are way, way below any turbine aircraft.

I worked on my MEL in the DA 42 this summer. Liked the FADEC but as I hadn't used the G1000 before it was a major learning curve. I don't know how the G1000 could have been made less intuitive to operate.

I generally like planes with sticks but using the stick with the left hand and having the power on the right seemed totally backwards. I suppose you could fly it from the right seat? :scratch: My instructor was a former Navy carrier pilot and shared the same view about the layout. He wasn't about to trade seats with me. :rofl:

But, really, I did not like flying with the stick in my left hand at all. I often found myself grabbing it with my right hand and my instructor had to remind me to put my right hand back on the power. It's odd because I had no real issue using a yoke with my left hand in a 172. But somehow using a stick requires more finesse and you really need to use your dominant hand for that until you train your non-dominant hand.
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